Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
By riverrock
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1894301
So get them to ring 999 and ask for coastguard? Will presumably end up at the same place?

Just looking it up, original ELTs only activated successfully 25% of the time, with 97% of alarms false.
Modern ones are up to 81% successful activation, but still 97% of activations are false (USA, 2017).
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By Iceman
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1894304
ELTs are a mandatory fit on N-reg aircraft these days. The TB20’s is connected to the IFD FMS so that it may broadcast last known position at the scene of the accident. In an effort to locate the source, it is not uncommon in the US to be asked by ATC as to the strength of an ELT transmission (on 121.5 MHz) so that they may gauge whether you’re flying towards it or away from it. Many end up being traced to aircraft in hangars.

In the process of looking for Steve Fosset in Nevada, they actually found several aircraft that had been missing for years. When they did eventually find him, it looked like the bears had go to him, as alluded to by @Flyin'Dutch'. A very good reason to be equipped with a PLB too, particularly a 406 MHz version.

Iceman 8)
#1894393
We are lucky enough to be based in a large hangar with a busy flight school. They operate a whiteboard system where you can leave the aircraft reg, est return time/date and a number. Obviously this only works as there is always someone coming and going there.
#1894411
We use Life360 which works across Android and Apple devices. It’s not always 100% accurate in the air, but if you do crash/have an out landing it’ll pick up an accurate signal during the descent and give relatives an idea of where to find you.
#1894424
I once got a slightly irate phone call while walking to a restaurant, asking where I was and, if I wasn't coming back today, why I'd not ticked the 'away overnight?' column on the booking-out sheet. I countered that the column is actually titled 'hangared aircraft - away overnight?' and we are not hangared but this cut no ice, I was still a very naughty boy.

Like widespread covid testing, I don't see the point. The rather unique thing about getting into difficulty in an aeroplane is that generally no-one outside of the aeroplane can help you - the limited exception being an air traffic controller. It may be human nature to want to know straight away if something has gone wrong, but it rarely makes much practical difference.

Only when we go flying together do we leave a message (call us / look for us at X time if we've not messaged you again) and that's only to ensure they can rescue the dog before he runs out of water, should we stoof it in.
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By Dave W
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1894437
defcribed wrote: The rather unique thing about getting into difficulty in an aeroplane is that generally no-one outside of the aeroplane can help you...

Non-ATCOs most certainly can if you end up in the middle of, say, a forest. Or the Channel.

Thst's what this is all about; not to sort out your troubles whilst the wings are still throwing off bernouillis.
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By MichaelP
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1894442
In Canuckland you must file a flight plan if you go more than 25NM from your departure field. This doesn’t always happen as pilots fly more than 25NM for pie.
The alternative is to do a ‘flight itinerary’ with a responsible person.

Flying schools monitor their aircraft as part of the ‘Operational Control’ requirement.
Devices such as Spot report their positions and so it is easy to track an aeroplane.

If you fail to close a flight plan in Canada, the FIC officers will phone and then alert if the aircraft is not confirmed to have arrived.

A couple of years ago a friend in Canada asked me to call him when I arrived back there.
He didn’t close his flight plan through the mountains... They haven’t found him yet.

406 ELTs are not as reliable as 121.5 ones. The 406 aerial often has a plastic base, and this often breaks in a crash.

In my early days here, all stations along your route were advised when you filed a flight plan, and failure to arrive was acted upon.
In France I filed a flight plan to Basle from Le Touquet as the radio had failed and I was nordo. I was late, and Basle ATC was about to start SAR.

Bad time for me was when JCY crashed. Redhill closed at 20:00 and my T67A had not returned.
I phoned around, and eventually called D&D and found out about it’s fatal demise over two hours before.

A month later a Condor failed to return, and that caused me huge anxiety until I found out after nightfall that although booked out to Redhill from the IOW the pilot, who was the registered owner, had decided to repossess it thinking I would not be able to complete its purchase. It was dirty business.

Go where you’re booked out to go, and if you have to divert, let someone know.

Here in England you’re likely to crash with witnesses.
In sparsely populated areas using a responsible person to file a flight itinerary is a good idea in the same way someone hiking in the winter, or caving should.
#1894459
It is now over 50 years since Micheal Bentine’s son went missing. I don’t know of a similar incident since.

As others have pointed out in this small island an accident is very likely to be seen and there are other procedures in place such as flight plans, Booking out, ATC etc.

Is there a really a problem?
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By Peter Gristwood
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1894472
IIRC there was an incident not too long ago when a glider went down on the side of a hill. The pilot survived but had to wait

A MISSING glider pilot was found safe 3000 feet up a mountain in the wreckage of his aircraft yesterday.

Hope had been fading for John Russell, 64, before he was spotted waving from the cockpit of the glider on Beinn a Bhuird, near Braemar.

The RAF Tornado crew who saw him had been doing a last sweep before giving up the search, which had been going on across a huge area since Monday night.

They called in a helicopter, which flew him to Aberdeen Royal Infirmary for treatment.

When the helicopter landed, a woman, believed to be John's fiancee, rushed up to greet it.

He suffered only a broken left leg in the crash.

John, an experienced glider pilot and instructor from Yorkshire, spent Monday night and yesterday trapped in his cockpit.

He had taken off from Deeside Gliding Club's airstrip near Aboyne, Aberdeenshire, on Monday morning.

RAF spokesman in Scotland Mike Mulford said: "The Tornado was making its final sweep of the day. It's a remarkable rescue."

Copter navigator Flt Lt Patrick Thirkell said: "It is miraculous that he survived so long. It was getting to the point where we were expecting to have to bring the body bags out.

"But he was inside the smashed craft waving and in good spirits.

"He has suffered nothing other than a broken leg, which is quite remarkable." [code][/code]
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By Dave W
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1894478
Sooty25 wrote:What about the Emergency SOS feature on Smart Watches? Does assume you are able to trigger it, or maybe the fall detection functions if the "landing" isn't so smooth?

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#1894555
pullup wrote:It is now over 50 years since Micheal Bentine’s son went missing. I don’t know of a similar incident since.

..

Is there a really a problem?


ISTR reading that in this fatal of a Cherokee from Staverton going to Kilrush, there was no FPL, no 'responsible person' and no notification to destination, but there had been a call to Irish ATC early in the flight. Wreckage found next day

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-11495309

[used to share hangar with our shareoplane, Very nice guy :( ]
#1894596
@kanga how would any of those things prevented that accident? People will always do dumb stuff. You won't stop that by putting more onerous administrative requirements on the rest of us.

Re the glider pilot in Scotland, if you're going to go off into a remote area and there's the possibility (through mishap or whatever) that you might become stranded and/or injured, then build some way to deal with that eventuality into your life planning. This isn't an aviation matter, it's a looking after yourself and taking responsibility matter.

It doesn't say much for the calibre of individuals we train and licence as pilots that there is widespread support for administrative procedures aimed at preventing simple things like getting stuck in a remote area. Does no-one actually think "what if?" when they go flying, or when they do anything else for that matter? Do they just crack on and assume 'the system' will bail them out no matter what? Where is the real, deep-seated sense of responsibility for one's own safety?
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