Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By PeteSpencer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1893683
To carry pax at least three take-offs and landings must have been made in the preceding ninety days in the type of a/c to be used for the pax flight.

This has never applied to me as I've never gone for more that three months with a need to carry pax without at least three flights even in lockdown..

But watching a blogger doing night flights ,where only one take off of the 90 day three needed to be at night got me thinking.

Do the three 90 day VFR flights need to be full stop or does T & G suffice? Can't find the answer in Skyway code and am too lazy to fight with CAA/FCL bumf.

Its academic for the single Night flight as you're going to stop anyway.
But supplementary question: Why do the five flights for the award of the Night Rating (or Qualification in my case) have to be full stop?
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By Rob P
#1893688
PeteSpencer wrote:But supplementary question: Why do the five flights for the award of the Night Rating (or Qualification in my case) have to be full stop?


Because in the dark nobody can reliably judge if you have touched, or just done a low approach and go round.

Rob P

Truthfully, I haven't a clue.
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By PeteSpencer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1893695
There’s never any doubt when my wheels touch the ground , night or day :roll:

Interestingly ( to me at least) my excellent instructor at MASF told me , paradoxically but true, not to flare till the runway edge lights, as they flash by, appear rise up to your shoulder level.

And he was quite right . :wink:
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By skydriller
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1893710
France (EASA) requiring a certain number of full stop landings at night to get the Night Qualification rings a bell, but dont know if this extends to keeping current.
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By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1893713
PeteSpencer wrote:... in the type of a/c to be used for the pax flight.
...
Do the three 90 day VFR flights need to be full stop or does T & G suffice?

@PeteSpencer
I see you have cast some pedant-groundbait.... Yum yum!
Doesn't have to be same type unless type rated a/c, same class is fine.
Doesn't just apply to vfr, flight rules irrelevant
Doesn't have to be three flights
Doesn't need to be full stops unless your rental place wants to increase your invoiced time. If rules want full stops they say so
russp liked this
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By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1893726
skydriller wrote:France (EASA) requiring a certain number of full stop landings at night to get the Night Qualification rings a bell, but don't know if this extends to keeping current.

Always been the case here - well, maybe I have to be careful with Kanga around... what I mean is that I do not remember a time when it was not the case here in the UK for a night rating/qualification to have to have full stops in the initial night training
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By AndyR
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1893736
PeteSpencer wrote:Thanks Irv, I think I’ll go and lie down in a darkened room ….,,,,., :roll:

Skyway code says ‘same type or class’ for the90 days


Hi Pete, that’s to cover those who fly different classes or types. I regularly fly two different classes (SEP, MEP) and one type (turbine). That starts to become a headache to ensure I’m 90 day current.

However, as I assume you are referring to SEP, so long as you have 3 take off and landings in the SEP class you’ll be fine. It can be one in a PA28, one in a C152 and one in a Robin.
I believe you have an IR, so that negates the worry about night as you are covered by the IR. Without it, you would need one at night you are correct.
Last edited by AndyR on Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By Rob P
#1893737
Rob P wrote:Because in the dark nobody can reliably judge if you have touched, or just done a low approach and go round.


PeteSpencer wrote:There’s never any doubt when my wheels touch the ground , night or day


I did actually mean snoopers from the CAA but.. oh, never mind.

Rob P
By Fellsteruk
#1893742
Agree the difference between T&G and full stop is minimal and never understood why the five full stops are needed for night rating.

I did mine at Liverpool, was able to land and come to a full stop on the runway then take off which given the runway length wasn’t an issue.

Only issue for me was the £150 in landing fees, would have saved me a little bit had I been able to do T&G :(
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By MattL
#1893760
I seem to recall being told it was to do with at night (not at major airports anyway) a student couldnt visually judge how far down the runway they have touched down and hence for a touch and go what remaining runway available / obstacle clearance on climb out. May seem wacky but if you think about runway 18 at Wellesbourne and the hill I’ve found that interesting at night before!

Some of our big RAF aircraft do ‘bump and goes’ which is where the aircraft isn’t fully landed on nose wheel before going again!
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By rikur_
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1893762
What about 'go and touch'?
At Elvington I've done a practice EFATO back onto the runway then continuing into a second takeoff. I think if you were more skilled than I you could get all 3 takeoffs and landings on a single departure!
(Not a serious question)