Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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#1891627
Well your instructor and the “guy at the CAA” are wrong.

Airmanship, even in a microlight, should tell you that non- standard R/T is a flight safety hazard. The place to practice RT is on the ground not on a live frequency.

If you are referring to microlight frequencies then the same argument applies even more. They are certainly not the place to gain experience before speaking to an ATC unit.

Sorry for the curt reply but there is enough poor RT in the community as it is.
Aerials liked this
By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1891651
pullup wrote:Sorry for the curt reply but there is enough poor RT in the community as it is.

Tis true, but the piloting world would be the poorer were it not for the immortal line....

"I said I was ****ing bored, not that that I was ****ing stupid".

You can't deny it. You just can't. :pirat:
Charles Hunt, Dman, Josh and 2 others liked this
User avatar
By russp
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1891652
pullup wrote:Well your instructor and the “guy at the CAA” are wrong.

Airmanship, even in a microlight, should tell you that non- standard R/T is a flight safety hazard. The place to practice RT is on the ground not on a live frequency.

If you are referring to microlight frequencies then the same argument applies even more. They are certainly not the place to gain experience before speaking to an ATC unit.

Sorry for the curt reply but there is enough poor RT in the community as it is.

Just because you don’t have an actual licence doesn’t stop you using correct RT techniques!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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#1891655
Dman wrote:Now was there any way I could have radioed him to let him know I was there?

Possibly. See many options above.

But just don't. This is not a clever use of R/T. It falls under "Not big, not clever."

Rob P
JAFO, T6Harvard, lobstaboy and 3 others liked this
By riverrock
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1891658
Disagree @Rob P, assuming the reason for the call is safety rather than just a "hello".
Safer for both OP ( once he has his RT licence) and his neighbour to know about each other. This can be achieved by reporting own position to Teeside as part of getting a basic service.
#1891667
I read the OP that the purpose of the call was to be as much a social as safety related call. The former No, the latter Yes.

When on frequency I have very occasionally had a quick " 'morning Charles" from a friend who happened to be on frequency. Not by the book but taking up one second on a quiet frequency is probably not too damaging.

Whilst learning I have had another school a/c contact ATC and ask to direct a message to us on frequency. They happily agreed and the message was safety relevant weather information.
Dman, condor17, Supercat liked this
#1891678
@riverrock

I fear your assumption is unfounded.

Plus, Teesside has some very modern radar installed within the last couple of years, they know perfectly well where aircraft are. Cluttering up the airwaves with random position reports because you happen to know the other pilot makes no sense.

Rob P

Edited :oops:
Last edited by Rob P on Wed Jan 05, 2022 9:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
#1891691
Why not ask ATC/FIS “you have a request? “I am looking for another aircraft” if they are not busy they will accommodate or otherwise tell you NO :thumleft: I don’t know if it’s as per ICAO Annex 10 RT Handbook or UK CAA Cap413…but worked for me few times

A friend of posted this while ago (it’s in US), looks childish but ATC kept his calm (would have been different if it was a his late Friday night shift)


#1891695
Dman wrote:Well it would seem that even those that have all the relevant RT licences can`t categorically answer my original question

So would having my RT licence really make me any wiser??


Yes they did. You don't have a radio licence so you may not use the radio to transmit. That's pretty categorical.
Once you have had the appropriate training and gained your FRTOL you will know that there is a priority list for aeronautical communications - see page 20 of CAP452 - in which personal messages do not feature. In fact, the same paragraph says that "public correspondence" is not permitted.
patowalker, mick w, T6Harvard and 4 others liked this
#1891699
riverrock wrote:Disagree @Rob P, assuming the reason for the call is safety rather than just a "hello".
Safer for both OP ( once he has his RT licence) and his neighbour to know about each other. This can be achieved by reporting own position to Teeside as part of getting a basic service.


It was purely a social call I was wanting to make, which is why I questioned the use of Teesside`s frequency

Is there such a thing as a chat frequency. In the microlight world 129.830 tends to get used a bit both for blind calls at unmanned strips and to talk to others especially if flying in a group
#1891700
In UK there ain't no chat frequency in air band, and just because you can't hear somebody on frequency, it doesn't mean your "Hello Fred, where are you" call doesn't blat through someone else's squelch when they're trying to make a legitimate call. I recall, long ago, trying to get a student used to circut making calls but being continually blocked out by "hello Fred" chatter from 30-odd miles away. Fortunately they heard me complain and shut up.

There is a microlight frequency for airborne situational awareness calls, but that would only work if Fred is on that channel and not Teesside Tower.

PS. Overlapped with @lobstaboy

PPS. What does the CAA think situational awareness is? They give us the long and the short of it in this tome (see page 71 et seq). In short: 'A colloquial definition of situational awareness is “knowing what is going on”. It also appears synonymous with the colloquial idea of ‘mental models’. Situational awareness is deemed to be at its highest when the person is able to anticipate how a situation is likely to continue into the immediate future.' No mention of setting up a cuppa with Fred at Jim's airfield, I'm afraid.
Last edited by Mz Hedy on Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:42 am, edited 2 times in total.
#1891702
Dman wrote: In the microlight world 129.830 tends to get used a bit both for blind calls at unmanned strips and to talk to others especially if flying in a group


129.830 is an air to ground frequency that is commonly issued to microlight strips. Blind calls are ok if the ground station isn't staffed. It's not for air to air Comms, so groups using it for that are outside the terms of their licence.
However, recently, 129.835 has been issued to allow microlight to microlight communication - a "chat" frequency if you like, but it's supposed to be used to enhance situational awareness not chat.
Dman liked this
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