Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By Dave W
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1887158
Image
Via Kitplanes magazine, this is an interesting conceptual test setup.
Kitplanes wrote:As part of the EAA’s Founder’s Innovation Prize competition, a new idea for presenting Angle of Attack information to pilots was thought up by Jack Horner, founder of FeelFlight stick grips.
... Horner came up with a stick grip that includes little thumpers aimed at three of the pilot’s fingers. Depending on where you are flying in the speed range, you get a little tap on the appropriate finger. In addition, the system will give a tap for a slip or skid condition on the appropriate side of the hand.


What a neat idea - I'd love to try that out. :D
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By G-BLEW
Boss Man  Boss Man
#1887164
The Velis Electro has haptic feedback on the stick for the stall. This takes that idea further, but presumably limits your hand to a single position?

Ian
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By StratoTramp
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1887168
I like the side slip idea. Keep your eyes outside rather than checking balance ball.

It's a pretty interesting way of getting more information to the pilot.

Loosely aligned:

It's getting very advanced these days actually from gaming. They have multiple motors and weights in them now, better stepper motors and even the triggers adjust their physical tension:

Not my typical game Call of Duty but there are some advanced features on the new PS5 controllers.

The trigger can adjust it's physical trigger point to replicate different weapons and and also bounce back.

@55 seconds it whacks up the resistance to simulate a rifle trigger.
@1:28 it actually forces the trigger back into your hand.



General haptic review:



It's a bit wasted on gaming tbh. Not that you can get a PS5 or Xbox for love nor money with the semi-conductor shortage.

That said a lot of the imaging techniques these days in hospitals (CT / MRI) have really been helped along by the push to improve computer graphics.
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By Genghis the Engineer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1887201
G-BLEW wrote:The Velis Electro has haptic feedback on the stick for the stall. This takes that idea further, but presumably limits your hand to a single position?

Ian


Whilst given a posh name that was basically a stick shaker as fitted to the BAC1-11, Jetstream, and doubtless many other aeroplanes I've never been involved with.

Not to criticise Pipistrel's use of it, or this new research moving on from there, just to say that it was a very far from original solution to a problem.

The use of novel haptic signalling to operators, such as pilots, is a major research area. I'm not involved personally, but those interested might do worse than read some of the papers of Professor Mariana Obrist at the University of Sussex.

G
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By Dave W
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1887213
As an aside, the tragic deep stall accident that befell notable tp Mike Lithgow and his test crew of 7 in BAC1-11 G-ASHG (and which led to the widespread introduction of stick shakers and stick pushers) took place just about 3.5 miles from where I'm typing this.

It's a beautifully peaceful spot nowadays, and I take a memorial walk up there every now and again; often to the distant sound of future test crews under training from ETPS at Boscombe Down just a few more miles further on.





Some moving background on the accident and aftermath from fellow 1-11 tp Jock Bryce: A Debt Today’s Air Travellers Owe To Mike Lithgow.

Following the accident investigation, and at their own initiative and expense, senior technical personnel at BAC toured competing manufacturers whose designs also had high tailplanes - such as Douglas (over whose DC-9 they had a technical lead at the time), Boeing (727), Lockheed (C-141) and Hawker-Siddeley (Trident) - in order to ensure that the detailed design issues behind the accident were fully understood across the industry.

Bravo Zulu, as the RN (Mike Lithgow's service) say.
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By G-BLEW
Boss Man  Boss Man
#1887244
GtE wrote:Whilst given a posh name that was basically a stick shaker as fitted to the BAC1-11, Jetstream, and doubtless many other aeroplanes I've never been involved with.

Not to criticise Pipistrel's use of it, or this new research moving on from there, just to say that it was a very far from original solution to a problem.


Am aware of stick shakers and pushers. Pipistrel was the first aeroplane I've flown with a GA version of the 'shaker' element. Garmin with its ESP is the first 'pusher' application in piston GA that I'm aware of.

Ian
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By Genghis the Engineer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1887267
Interesting point, I tend to think of aeroplanes as, well, aeroplanes (and frankly stick pushers and stick shakers are not often really needed unless there's something to fix, and I'm not convinced that's actually true of the Velis), but are there other piston aeroplanes using those solutions? I'm not sure if that's the case or not.

G
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By G-BLEW
Boss Man  Boss Man
#1887269
Genghis the Engineer wrote:Interesting point, I tend to think of aeroplanes as, well, aeroplanes (and frankly stick pushers and stick shakers are not often really needed unless there's something to fix, and I'm not convinced that's actually true of the Velis), but are there other piston aeroplanes using those solutions? I'm not sure if that's the case or not.

G


In the Velis the haptic feedback is just a different stall warner. My comment about Garmin's ESP doesn't apply as not fitted to that type.

Ian
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By Rob L
#1887310
patowalker wrote:My aeroplane is equipped with buffet®, which works on aerodynamic excitation. It is a cheap and effective stall warner, I hope.


I have a large front window and eyes in the front of my head and an appreciation of angle of attack. No stall warner installed; not needed in a small 2-seat VFR-only aircraft, in my humble opinion :cry: .
By patowalker
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1887313
Rob L wrote:
patowalker wrote:My aeroplane is equipped with buffet®, which works on aerodynamic excitation. It is a cheap and effective stall warner, I hope.


I have a large front window and eyes in the front of my head and an appreciation of angle of attack. No stall warner installed; not needed in a small 2-seat VFR-only aircraft, in my humble opinion :cry: .


Not even pre-stall buffet? Your aeroplane stalls without warning? That is really bad behaviour. :D
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By Rob L
#1887316
patowalker wrote:
Rob L wrote:
patowalker wrote:My aeroplane is equipped with buffet®, which works on aerodynamic excitation. It is a cheap and effective stall warner, I hope.


I have a large front window and eyes in the front of my head and an appreciation of angle of attack. No stall warner installed; not needed in a small 2-seat VFR-only aircraft, in my humble opinion :cry: .


Not even pre-stall buffet? Your aeroplane stalls without warning? That is really bad behaviour. :D

There is no pre-stall buffet for my aircraft type,

But that's not quite what I said (or perhaps what I meant); it does have warnings: a silly low airspeed, a silly high bank angle, a silly low rpm, a silly high nose attitude, all see-able from the large front window in front.

I'll send you a PM with an invite :D

Rob L
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By Genghis the Engineer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1887344
A PA28 has virtually no pre-stall buffet, and the older ones have no audible stall warning. But the enormous pull force you need to stall it, combined with the very benign stall characteristics, makes it perfectly safe.

G