Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
By AlanM
#1886979
@Boxkite

Surely this is what the OP said;

brentford77 wrote:…..and is now interested in taking the aircraft on an overseas trip solo
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By PeteSpencer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1886983
brentford77 wrote:Folks, I am selling a share of my aircraft at present and have been in conversation with an individual who is in his 60’s, very plausible and has been more than happy to pay costs of a couple of test flights, fuel, landing fees etc and is now interested in taking the aircraft on an overseas trip solo. He says he is about to retire from a well know airline as a training captain.

.


Consider this:
What if a/c breaks down/is involved in an accident in Southern Spain?

What if a/c is weathered in in darkest Germany?

What if pilot has to get back to UK for pers reasons and can't bring a/c back?

What if pilot nicks aeroplane ?

I personally wouldn't touch it with a bargepole.

There will be another conventional buyer along soon.
Good luck
Peter
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By Genghis the Engineer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1886984
The whole point of joint ownership is that you are an owner of the aeroplane you're flying. If this is the right interpretation, then I think I'd personally tell him to sling his hook.

(And from an offline conversation, I'd do so doubly, as I suspect this man is being economical with the truth on other matters also.)

G
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By Boxkite
#1887005
AlanM wrote:@Boxkite

Surely this is what the OP said;

brentford77 wrote:…..and is now interested in taking the aircraft on an overseas trip solo

Yes, but it is not clear whether this was a suggestion for after purchasing the share..
By AlanM
#1887008
Yep, see your point - but why would anyone restrict a syndicate share from going solo overseas?

Anyhoo - If the OP leant it to the possible tester they may get the airframe back…. With Special Branch/Border Force asking questions about the payload.
By Lefty
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1887011
I have seen this scam (twice) - one aircraft vanished for more than 6 weeks and another was illegally rented out to a third party. Don’t even consider it. (PM sent)
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By Ibra
#1887033
AlanM wrote:Yep, see your point - but why would anyone restrict a syndicate share from going solo overseas?


Why do you even have to tell the syndicate partners where you are going? buy the share, cough the money or any deposit, get checked by an instructor/examiner, pay any insurance extra and send them postcards of Canaries or Croatia from your next trip :lol:

It depends on the group & the aircraft? two guys who were in my syndicate did flew the aircraft pretty much all over the map, one did Oshkosh twice, the other to SouthAfrica, they were not impressed by one day trip to LeTouquet or the mighty long crossing to Jersey :shock:
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By MattL
#1887037
It does seem people get very typically British about groups and shares - we should just be more upfront about the fact that it’s a partnership and not a retail transaction, if someone is not the right personality or their plans aren’t liked / you’re not keen just tell them direct ‘thanks but this won’t be working out’. I’ve seen it in clubs as well where everywhere dances around the problem issue/person and it takes an incident before something gets done.
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By Iceman
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1887041
Indeed, as I wrote above, we have it that a prospective group member must meet the existing group members, present credentials, flying history, aspirations, etc., so that the group can gauge whether this is someone with whom they would want to share their pride and joy. We have rejected a number of people over the years for various reasons, including lack of experience, previous flying incidents, general attitude, aspirations inconsistent with the rest of the group in terms of future investment in the aircraft, etc. It’s a lot easier to reject someone before they join a group than it is to expel a troublesome member once they’re in the group,

Iceman 8)
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By Sooty25
#1887057
would @brentford77 care to confirm whether this request to fly solo abroad, is before purchasing the share or not.

Without knowing this, this thread is going no where!
Last edited by Sooty25 on Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By SteveX
#1887064
Exactly. The waffle on this plus many other topics on this forum leads me to think there are some serious mental issues out there! Two pages on Bose headset vs the EU issues, jeez, yet you Brits just carry on buying them similar to the great Pooleys debate (I've always supported them even though I'm a customer without thought and the fact AFE is cheaper with more airfields doesn't come into my thinking). Anyway back to OP............

How hard is it to:
a) establish if he just wants to borrow the aircraft (answer no, you join the group)
b) ask for license, log, passport and drivers license (to establish address) at interview with a couple of group members
c) if b is ok and he comes across as ok then see d, if not e
d) pays share price, go ahead and enjoy the aircraft within rules
e) sorry but group has decided you do not meet criteria
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By Loco parentis
#1887068
Here's a true story that underpins the theme of extreme caution. The medium is different, the message is the same.

An American friend of mine owned an ocean going, Piver designed, 42ft. trimaran - a magnificent beast ! Herb was anxious to sell up here, retire to Texas and breed Yorkie dogs. Three young fellows responded to Herb's sale advert for the tri.

The plan was for them to go to Majorca wherein the tri was located and go for a weeks trial sale around the islands - it was winter time. The Med is not sometimes the place to be in a sailboat in winter. Herb asked me and I replied that the proposal smelt very strongly of trouble. What was their experience, especially on tri's ? Would the Insurance; Lloyds, cover them unconditionally?

Herb was so anxious to be on his way that he became deaf to all reason. The three young chaps left and we all held our breath ! After about a week, came their news; they'd set off into what became seriously bad weather and could not start the engine. The vessel started to take water. Due to insufficient sea room the sails could not do their job. They could run only off the wind which took them in a direction which they did not want to go.

They broadcast a 'mayday'. This was picked up by a large freighter which found them and managed to pass a tow line. This, during continuing bad weather. The tri crew fastened the tow around what is called a Samson post secured to the foredeck for that very purpose. The large freighter tightened the line and pulled the Samson post right out of its location on the foredeck. From that moment the vessel had next to no future unless, of course, you had a crew so experienced that by using on board materials to fill the hole and turning the tri by means of a drogue so as to present its stern to a following sea.

The freighter cast off but stood by. The Spanish coastguard arrived took off the crew and proceeded to sink the wreck with gun fire as they said that it was a danger to shipping. The resulting wrangle with Herb's insurers took over a year to resolve to Herb's detriment.

Don't take any chance in any similar situation - it can all go so terribly wrong.
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By Sooty25
#1887079
A chap I know bought a £2M sailing yacht from an insurance company. They had previously paid out on it as stolen.
It had been taken for a test sail from the south coast and never returned. It was found 3 years later, by pure chance, in the Caribbean!
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By brentford77
#1889669
Sooty25 wrote:would @brentford77 care to confirm whether this request to fly solo abroad, is before purchasing the share or not.

Without knowing this, this thread is going no where!


...sorry...have been offline and have now fled plague Island for a while. Yes, the request was for a pre purchase solo trip. Based upon a number of things...intuition, some google sleuthing et al, I shut down that request as well as drawing attention to some concerns and apparent inconsistencies in what I had been told. Have heard nothing more from said person and frankly don't expect to.

Unusually though, this chap did two flights with existing owners and picked up a couple of hefty invoices which he had not been asked to. Most scammers, although clearly not all, tend to not part with any money. I recognise that doing so can be a great way to help to demonstrate barn fides...
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By Rob L
#1889700
brentford77 wrote:...barn fides...

Barn finds or bone fides ? Whichever; well done for stepping away :thumright: .