Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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User avatar
By Flying_john
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1885579
I just looked at the GAR form on .gov.uk as written in the new missive and to me it appears to be the same form as I always used to fill in for a trip to Europe dated Dec 2020 with both Arrival and Departure information requested.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/946913/GAR_Template_Updated_Dec_2020_v6.4_SDS.xlsx
User avatar
By Dave W
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1885707
Yesterday I posted a copy of an email I sent regarding this. I put a couple of edits into that email as my query was moved from person to person within HMG.

Since this now seems as if it might become quite a saga, I'll copy those first two edits to this post and add this morning's response!

Edit: Well, I did get a rapid initial response, telling me the queries should go to the Home Office and not the Border Force GA Unit. So now sent to them as advised.

Edit2: Home Office have now (0900 1 Dec) forwarded the queries to a section in HMRC.

Edit3: An email has been received this morning from HMRC:
HMRC wrote:Thank you for your email, however, the Home Office have incorrectly passed it to the Air Passenger Duty Team, which deals with Aviation taxes and not the queries you have submitted.

Below is a link which will hopefully help and please note this helpdesk is unable to help you further with your enquiry.

(The link was a generic one on imports and exports and certainly did not address any of the queries.)

Which would close off the enquiry if left there - so I have bounced the queries back to the GAR Support Team and asked them please to find the correct organisation or team to answer.

I have also, on reflection, gone back the HMRC contact and asked him to pass it up his management chain rather than just bounce it - given that the documents have HMRC letterheads.

Sheesh.

Edit 4: The HMRC person replied, pointing me back at the General Enquiries link (2,000 character limit) and ended with "I am sorry but I am unable to help you any further." I've pinged a note via that form, referenced the HMRC document and asked them to contact me. This should NOT be so difficult.

Double-sheesh.
bogopper, Rob P, Kemble Pitts and 2 others liked this
User avatar
By Dave W
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1885716
It should go to the Authoring department (whoever that is) of the original document; they are the people who should take responsibility for correcting the information they sent out regardless of the source they quote from.

Anybody got any suggestions for a relevant addressee further up the HMRC chain?
User avatar
By kanga
#1885737
Dave W wrote:The following email just sent to Border Force GA Unit. I shall report back with any response:

..
..
(b)he gives at least 12 hours’ notice in writing to a constable for the police area in which the port is situated (or, where the port is in Northern Ireland, to a member of the Royal Ulster Constabulary)." (My bold)...


good luck finding a member of the RUC, which no longer exists :wink:
User avatar
By Dave W
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1885740
Not my words - tell Border Force!

Further to Edit 4 above, I have (a) been supplied with a likely-looking HMRC email address (thanks!), which is hopefully useful because (b) the following came back as an auto-reply from the HMRC General Enquiries Form:

HMRC wrote:...We aim to reply to your enquiry within 15 working days. If we cannot answer your question in full we will let you know when you can expect to receive a full reply...
kanga liked this
User avatar
By Kemble Pitts
#1885895
Dave W wrote:Not my words - tell Border Force!

Further to Edit 4 above, I have (a) been supplied with a likely-looking HMRC email address (thanks!), which is hopefully useful because (b) the following came back as an auto-reply from the HMRC General Enquiries Form:

HMRC wrote:...We aim to reply to your enquiry within 15 working days. If we cannot answer your question in full we will let you know when you can expect to receive a full reply...


This is great work on your part Dave, you really are an f'ing star. :thumleft: :thumleft:
Dave W, kanga liked this
User avatar
By A le Ron
#1885943
Probably needs to go to the MPs (not specifically Mr Shapps). That may get it through to the appropriate department to answer simple questions. The DG of Border force is Paul Lincoln. He is answerable to the Minister of State, Kevin Foster
Dave W liked this
User avatar
By Dave W
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1885947
I think I've probably got the appropriate contact details now.

I'll escalate if no joy there, given the importance for all of us of getting this correct. (And the timescale.)
G-BLEW, A le Ron liked this
User avatar
By Dave W
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1886140
Quick update: I've now had a proactive response from Border Security at the Home Office, who say:
As your questions will need to be answered by different departments I will coordinate a response to you from the relevant teams.

I'll report back accordingly.

Regarding my Q4, essentially the question and answer crossed in the post! :wink:
I have just spoken with colleagues from Border Force about this who have informed me that letters were sent by email to all airfields on the 30th November, I’d like to be able to confirm with them that your airfield in question did receive this email, unless of course you have now had sight of it?

The strip owner here has received the email and so that query, for Wing Farm at least, has been closed off.

If there's anybody out there dealing with the CoAA application process on behalf of an airfield that hasn't received the email announcing the extension then you may wish to query Border Force yourselves - I'd suggest via the contact details on the original October 2020 letter.
By VFRBimbler
#1886656
I have commented in the past on a number of threads about the “powers that be” inability to disseminate information accurately or think through changes that are being made, whether that be in NOTAMs e.g. COP 26 and various ORSs or in guidance that does not accurately reflect the true underlying position.

I had hoped that the number of such instances would be an embarrassment to the organisations concerned and that at the very least personal professional pride in one’s work would see an improvement. Sadly, this does not appear to be the case and what seems to be a “that will do - it’s there or thereabouts” attitude pervades. I am sure a contributing factor is the “cut and paste” type world in which we now live, which means individuals do not necessarily think about the content they are producing.

Absolute accuracy is not always necessary in all walks of life and in certain circumstances one can get away with “well, it’s not quite what I wrote, but you know what I meant”. However, from the likes of regulators, this is completely unacceptable.

Maybe instead, before issuing anything, the likes of the CAA should recognise their shortcomings and promulgate draft communications for comment from those, including many forumites, who not only are more knowledgeable but also take pride in what they do. Hopefully the quality of communications would then improve and any unintended consequences would also be highlighted so that they could be addressed prior to issue, rather than have to issue a myriad of corrections or updates, which in themselves can serve to muddy the waters even more.

OK, my suggestion is pie in the sky. On the other hand, the present situation cannot be allowed to persist although I see nothing to suggest anything is being done to improve it. Shame on the likes of the CAA.
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