Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By Cub
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1885369
The UK Civil Aviation Authority has approved this airspace change that includes changes relating to London Luton Airport’s arrival routes. The revised airspace will become effective on 24 February 2022. https://airspacechange.caa.co.uk/PublicProposalArea?pID=51

I may have missed the thread but surprised this hasn't been discussed. It's encouraging to see an airspace change that incorporates a return of unused controlled airspace offering a simplification to airspace structures east of Stansted.

Hopefully, this will start a trend of reexamining and adjusting CAS volumes to align with current utilisation.

Edited: Chart copied from ACP for the "hard of searching" ;-)
Image
Last edited by Cub on Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By Dave W
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1885371
Cub wrote:I may have missed the thread but surprised this hasn't been discussed.

I'm not.

There are 69 :shock: documents with no easy-to-digest summary and no obvious* airspace chart showing what has been relinquished to Class G (and, in particular, whether any of that is at typucal VFR altitudes/levels).

That's not sniping; it's constructive criticism of poor messaging.

I'm surprised you're surprised.


*I'm sure there is one somewhere in those nearly 6 dozen documents. Life's way too short to go hunting. It'll, perhaps, be a pleasant surprise once charting is amended.
#1885376
Yeah when I first read the airspace consultation documents I thought it just involved changes to flight paths affecting Luton. I’m not a Luton user (can’t afford it) and so didn’t go into it much further.

I suppose I could have looked into any IFR or VFR transit routes affected but it wasn’t immediately obvious.

Edited to add: Thanks for the chart. I welcome the updates - the reduction/simplification of Class A, and the modification/reduction of other fillets to Class C.
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By Dave W
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1885387
Cub wrote:Edited: Chart copied from ACP for the "hard of searching" ;-)
Image

What a thoroughly objectionable response. :shock:

Particularly since that image on its own gives absolutely no information on what has actually changed (other than implying nothing under FL75, hence of minimal interest to most of the GA population flying in that area, thereby highlighting my earlier comment that "I'm surprised you're surprised".)

Other than my irritation with you, @Cub, there's a serious point here.

If NATS truly wish to engage with all airspace users, the information provided really must be clear, easily found summarised and relevant to all constituents of the audience.

Are GA elements of the audience somehow deficient in not rapidly assimilating 69 (I say again - sixty-nine) documents spanning a considerable time period, and not immediately determining that what was in the Proposal is what was actually delivered in the eventual Decision?

Or perhaps that latter point is more illuminating than you intended? It might imply that the "Proposal" was no such thing; rather it was a fait accompli, and Poor Show, audience, for not appreciating that from the outset.

You will. no doubt correctly, come back and state that you are no longer employed by NATS. Fair enough - but in that case perhaps be careful not to imply - as it appears to me it does - that your position and attitude reflects that of your former employer.
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By Cub
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1885389
I assume your pipes are frozen #Dave W ;-)

You are quite correct, I no longer work for NATS but I have followed this ACP quite closely because it always included the suggestion of the review and release of unused CAS at low levels and the classification of higher-level volumes allowing access to VFR flight, which I feel is very important for GA ops. I think the chart does indicate those releases to the east of Stansted.

Actually, I thought the online consultations with the GA community hosted by the joint applicants were very well run and collaborative. That positive engagement and adaptation are detailed in the 69 documents for those that wish to read them.
Last edited by Cub on Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
#1885395
Cub wrote:That positive engagement and adaptation is detailed in the 69 documents for those that wish to read them.

Good grief, and he really seems to believe that's reasonable. :(

Pipes fine, thanks.

Did Douglas Adams have any experience of Airspace Consultation, I wonder?

DNA wrote:"But the plans were on display…”

“On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.”

“That’s the display department.”

“With a flashlight.”

“Ah, well, the lights had probably gone.”

“So had the stairs.”

“But look, you found the notice, didn’t you?”

“Yes,” said Arthur, “yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard'".


I haven't checked, but I suspect that is an exaggeration.

In that none of the sixty nine (so not seventy, which would be a BIG number) documents (probably) has "Beware of the Leopard" written on the cover.
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