Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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#1885315
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:Before I leave from home I check

1. Tablet Charged
2. SkyDemon (no doubt there are others but none as good as) up to date with charts
3. If I know where I am going plan route with SD and check weather, NOTAMs and if applicable PPR)

Now, a friend of mine usually does that but one day this summer they issued a NOTAM (IIRC) of an RA(T) starting at 0930 after he had planned and checked everything at home and left at 0800. Since the airfield was within the RA(T), he only noticed when he saw the boundary appear on SD, and he was the wrong side of it... Happily no harm was done as SD had used a huge circle instead of drawing the exact co-ordinates. :lol:
#1885342
I presume if you can prove that it was impossible to have seen an RA(T) before the flight as above no action could be taken for an intrusion?

Rob P
#1885471
Rob P wrote:I presume if you can prove that it was impossible to have seen an RA(T) before the flight as above no action could be taken for an intrusion?

Rob P


Not the attitude taken by FAA/DOHS for the 'temporary' RAs covering routes between White House, Andrews AFB and Camp David. These were deemed active (with associated penalties for intrusion) as soon as promulgated; the penalties potentially including not just FAA administrative action but Federal criminal charges or hostile action from intercepting armed helicopters or FJs. However, because they were 'temporary' they were not printed on charts.. prudent GA pilots in the area drew them in by hand and then assumed they were always active :?

[this was in immediate aftermath of 9/11; I don't know if anything has changed ..]
#1885827
MattL wrote:Urban myth rollout time again it seems

There is no restriction on any flight during PPL training or test using GNSS
All that is currently required is the student demonstrates a DR leg on initial test



Hi Matt,

I'm close to my LAPL test at Enstone. I completed by QXC this week and I absolutely used SD. I did of course have a map too but SD was my primary source of navigation with the PLOG being checked regularly to ascertain accuracy but only after the fact.

Does your post mean I can use SD in my test (I appreciate it literally says exactly that but I could do with the extra certainty). For the DR I presumably reach behind and grab the map and get busy but it's still ok to have the SD / phone in sight?

Thank you.

Richard
#1885829
TrickyWoo wrote:[For the DR I presumably reach behind and grab the map and get busy but it's still ok to have the SD / phone in sight?


The way we do it in the gliding world is for the examiner to say: Oh oh your Phone/tablet has overheated. Turn it off and continue with map.
And then: By the way, we are now diverting to ...
#1885919
Dave W wrote:I'd be getting my standby phone out of my pocket...


Me too. And the iPad Air 1 with built in GPS and sim, iPad Pro 12" which probably upsets the W&B and spare spare phone on Android in case iOS has had an overnight global update with built in humour tumor. But only one chart. I must be missing something :-)
#1885982
I must admit I only mark up a paper chart for the aircraft I fly with no panel mounted GPS. Otherwise my two forms of Nav are SD and the panel mount GPS and I admit that means a failure of the GPS system (or jamming) would be an issue. But that, unNotamed, would constitute an emergency and I’d be getting help from D&D!
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#1885996
NDB_hold wrote:I must admit I only mark up a paper chart for the aircraft I fly with no panel mounted GPS. Otherwise my two forms of Nav are SD and the panel mount GPS and I admit that means a failure of the GPS system (or jamming) would be an issue. But that, unNotamed, would constitute an emergency and I’d be getting help from D&D!


An unplanned jamming or system failure of GPS over a significant area, would probably overload D&D to the point where they couldn't cope.
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By PaulisHome
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1886000
NDB_hold wrote:I must admit I only mark up a paper chart for the aircraft I fly with no panel mounted GPS. Otherwise my two forms of Nav are SD and the panel mount GPS and I admit that means a failure of the GPS system (or jamming) would be an issue.


Pretty much the same for me, though there's a another backup which is SkyDemon on my phone in my pocket.

But if there was a GPS failure, SkyDemon reverts to just being a map (though rather a good one in some ways, less good in others), which puts me in just as good a position as having a paper map.

I think the problem with this conversation is the emphasis on needing a paper map. What is needed is a backup to the primary system, whether paper or otherwise.

Paul
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By David Wood
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1886010
PaulisHome wrote:
I think the problem with this conversation is the emphasis on needing a paper map. What is needed is a backup to the primary system, whether paper or otherwise.

Paul


Yup. In the days before GPS we flew with a chart. We didn't have a back-up chart, or indeed a radio.

But we did teach and consider Lost Procedure (which was our back-up) with rather more expectation of having to use it. Some of us even had to do so; more than once. It included, in extremis, landing and asking the natives 1) do they speak English; and, if so, 2) where-the-hell-are-we?
Last edited by David Wood on Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:20 am, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
By David Wood
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1886013
I remember once in the mid-80 in a flex-wing microlight with my brother as passenger getting hopelessly lost in mid-Wales. We eventually resolved our 'uncertainty' by making a series of low passes over a prominent road junction so that we could read the road-sign there and then follow the road that seemed most likely to lead us home.

Ah, the days before controlled airspace, radios, or people faffing about Rule 5....
kanga, Sooty25, patowalker and 2 others liked this
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