Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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#1885174
It may be unwise, but there are lots of times I will go with the gps moving map / ifr gps being my sole navigation. Especially around complex airspace.T here's nothing to compare with the accuracy and situational awareness with warnings, etc. If I was to lose gps I'd consider a pan call, or just pop down into a field as a precautionary landing. Better than committing an airspace bust.
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By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1885177
proteus wrote: If I was to lose gps I'd consider a pan call, or just pop down into a field as a precautionary landing. Better than committing an airspace bust.


If you have a PLOG which you can get from Skydemon etc... then your tablet is essentially a chart. Precautionary landing may be a bit OTT but a call to the nearby unit or D&D would be a sound idea, just to double check that you are where you think you are!
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User avatar
By Flyin'Dutch'
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1885179
marioair wrote:However not using an EFB as sole means of navigation still stands. There’s a difference between saying don’t use it as primary navigation (that’s what most sensible people do) and sole means (that’s what unwise people do).


I was never the smartest knife in the drawer!

What other means of navigation are you using then?

I know my limitations and can definitively not multitask. I suppose I do a bit of pilotage and on longer flights in areas I don't know I have been known to use a PLOG and maybe have a chart within reach.

What else am I supposed to do?
Last edited by Flyin'Dutch' on Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
#1885184
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:
marioair wrote:However not using an EFB as sole means of navigation still stands. There’s a difference between saying don’t use it as primary navigation (that’s what most sensible people do) and sole means (that’s what unwise people do).


I was never the smartest knife in the drawer!

What other means of navigation are you using then?

I know my limitations and can definitively not multitask. I suppose I do a bit of pilotage and on longer flights in areas I don't know I have been known to use a PLOG and maybe have a chart within reach.

What else am I supposed to do?


Panel mounted certified GPS
DME
VOR
paper map
DR
RTF (VDF, Vectors)
Sextant

I’m not saying I use any as primary means of navigation but it means that the EFB is not my sole means of navigation.
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#1885185
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:
marioair wrote:However not using an EFB as sole means of navigation still stands. There’s a difference between saying don’t use it as primary navigation (that’s what most sensible people do) and sole means (that’s what unwise people do).


I was never the smartest knife in the drawer!

What other means of navigation are you using then?

I know my limitations and can definitively not multitask. I suppose I do a bit of pilotage and on longer flights in areas I don't know I have been known to use a PLOG and maybe have a chart within reach.

What else am I supposed to do?


It says moving map technology should not be the only means of planning or navigation. Nothing about EFBs which people are conflating.

eg don’t jump into your machine and stick in a direct to on your GNS430 and go flying. ie you must check NOTAMs, have a bit of route study to understand the airspace on your route and have a think about possible Plan Bs if you have to divert etc

In flight back up your route with some visual features eg yep I’m going south of Wellesbourne airfield which I can see as I know Birmingham airspace is to the north

It’s all stuff that most sensible pilots do instinctively. It is a really good safety sense leaflet, some good pragmatic and nicely presented advice with a nice modern style and format. Good work from CAA.
User avatar
By Flyin'Dutch'
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1885189
Before I leave from home I check

1. Tablet Charged
2. SkyDemon (no doubt there are others but none as good as) up to date with charts
3. If I know where I am going plan route with SD and check weather, NOTAMs and if applicable PPR)

At the airfield

Do 3. If we have decided on the hoof where we are going and not done yet at home
4. Prepare flying and
5. Start SD in navigation mode.

Whilst en-route, set heading, check progress against SD and the big map outside.

For longer trips, which may find VORs etc en route, tune in to those, but if not just enjoy the stress free navigation GPS and SD offer.

Not used are DR, Sextant or paper chart.

Was the first at my club to use a hand held, was laughed at. Then like now I am comfortable with being an early adopter.
#1885190
MattL wrote:
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:
marioair wrote:However not using an EFB as sole means of navigation still stands. There’s a difference between saying don’t use it as primary navigation (that’s what most sensible people do) and sole means (that’s what unwise people do).


I was never the smartest knife in the drawer!

What other means of navigation are you using then?

I know my limitations and can definitively not multitask. I suppose I do a bit of pilotage and on longer flights in areas I don't know I have been known to use a PLOG and maybe have a chart within reach.

What else am I supposed to do?


It says moving map technology should not be the only means of planning or navigation. Nothing about EFBs which people are conflating.

eg don’t jump into your machine and stick in a direct to on your GNS430 and go flying. ie you must check NOTAMs, have a bit of route study to understand the airspace on your route and have a think about possible Plan Bs if you have to divert etc

In flight back up your route with some visual features eg yep I’m going south of Wellesbourne airfield which I can see as I know Birmingham airspace is to the north

It’s all stuff that most sensible pilots do instinctively. It is a really good safety sense leaflet, some good pragmatic and nicely presented advice with a nice modern style and format. Good work from CAA.


It’s a good point to differentiate between a moving map (only) and an EFB.
If someone is using just a moving map for “planning” then something a lot more fundamental than a safety sense leaflet is required!

For navigation purposes I use an EFB for VFR and panel mount for IFR as my command (primary) navigation source. Would I take off if I’d forgotten my paper chart. Maybe.
Would it take off if all other nav sources were u/s. Probably not.
User avatar
By Flyin'Dutch'
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1885197
marioair wrote:Would it take off if all other nav sources were u/s. Probably not.



It depends. Mainly on where I am going.

But if I knew all was u/s before I left and the destination was somewhere uncluttered I would brush off a paper chart and go and apply pilotage with some DR.
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#1885201
MattL wrote:It is a really good safety sense leaflet


In my view, its main shortcoming is that it isn't a leaflet.

Yes I know one can print it out, I guess that's what most ground schools will do. But the cost saving to the CAA of not printing and distributing it as hard copy could be covered by retiring a single useless CAA functionary.

Rob P
#1885207
Rob P wrote:
MattL wrote:It is a really good safety sense leaflet


In my view, its main shortcoming is that it isn't a leaflet.

Yes I know one can print it out, I guess that's what most ground schools will do. But the cost saving to the CAA of not printing and distributing it as hard copy could be covered by retiring a single useless CAA functionary.

Rob P


I think it’s not really a environmentally good thing to do, to print and post to a large mailing list just incase some schools want to put the thing on a noticeboard somewhere.
johnm liked this
By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1885214
I'm increasingly using on line or tablet resources. I'll often download and save rather than print. Occasionally I have something where paper is better and I can print it.

At the concert last night I saw a stark example of where this is going. The oboe player had her score on an ipad with a foot pedal to turn the pages :-)
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