Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
User avatar
By Mr Bags
#1885301
lobstaboy wrote:Yes. Which is why I cannot understand why people listen to music while flying. Or rabbit on to their YT viewers (a commentary later I can cope with) - I keep wanting to yell at them to think about where to go when the engine stops. Or at least to turn their neck a bit to look somewhere that isn't straight in front...



This video is interesting - major engine failure just after take off, very quick decisions made about the landing spot and a good example of how a stopped prop reduces drag (visible just before the landing). With commentary added later!

User avatar
By MichaelP
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1885360
I read Richard Bach’s books a long time ago, and The Reluctant Messiah.

Here’s the thing, the forced landing is often taught with mediocrity, we teach the benign engine failure: carb heat hot, lower the nose to attain best glide, turn towards your field, cause check, mayday call/7700, passenger brief, emergency checklist, secure the engine, and procedure.

Many engine failures are anything but benign, so I start my briefing with the benign and then introduce reality with a “BANG.... what are you going to do now?”

Obviously get the nose down... We brief this with our takeoff safety brief... Maintain control of the aeroplane.
Then you must decide what must be done.

There was a bang, and the engine ran rough, I assumed a valve had failed in the O 320 fitted to the Cherokee.
I lowered the nose while closing the throttle; save whatever the engine had to offer in case I needed it.
Plenty of height, 2,500 feet, and near Langley Airport.
Made it back with ease, and shut down on the ground.
My brother asked me ‘did I apply the carb heat?’

So should we insist on only teaching a simplistic benign engine failure procedure, and not prepare the student for a mechanical failure where carb heat is irrelevant?

An instructor’s job is to teach essential knowledge. If the student is intelligent then ‘nice to know’ can be added...
I never prejudge a student’s ability.

One of the best things an instructor can instil in a student is a willingness to consider emergencies beyond the syllabus, to think of scenarios, and how one might cope.

When we consider what might happen, simulated in our minds, we subconsciously prepare ourselves for when it might happen to us.
We all like to read accident reports, what would we do differently?
This is consideration beyond the training we have received. It’s good practice.
User avatar
By Rob P
#1885406
Engine stops in the cruise, the first action that I have briefed myself is to climb until the speed decays to best glide. That's 50-70 knots to trade for height. The extra altitude is safety in the bank.

Rob P
mick w liked this
User avatar
By MichaelP
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1885412
Bill McCarthy wrote:Not once during the PPL syllabus on Condors at Rochester was I instructed on mixture control. Is it actually in the course these days ?

‘Doesn’t seem to be.
Likewise I was not taught how to use the mixture, but in those days we had 80 Octane Avgas.

Even in Canada there’s division between schools.
Most seem to teach students to lean on the ground...

TC inspectors sometimes suggested moving the mixture to rich before descending.
Both the application of carb heat and enrichening the mixture contribute to ‘shock cooling’. These controls need consideration in their use.
At this time of the year we need to be mindful how we treat our air cooled engines.
Indeed a mixture set for 9,000 feet will ‘fail’ an engine at 2,000 feet... Maybe a ‘reds blues greens’ call will remind one to move the mixture forward before applying more throttle at the bottom of descent.

During the PPL flight test a student is required to do a diversion.
Draw a line, estimate time distance and fuel; locate obstacles and note their elevation, decide on route.
I add an N for Navigation to FREDA...
You get a higher score if you lean the mixture in this exercise as the fuel consumption is predicated on leaned mixture regardless of altitude which may be below 3,000’ PA.

As for mag drops, when you detect a mag drop on the runup, be aware that the aeroplane probably landed with this mag drop, and may also have done a go around.
Proper use of the mixture and intelligent use of the carb heat helps to prevent annoying mag drops on the runup.

In Canada the mixture control is tested during the runup.
I like to do this first looking for peak increase in RPM and then leaving the mixture set a little on the rich side (not full rich) to keep the plugs clean while the mags and carb heat are tested.

In China the G1000 lean assist was used at full throttle to set it correctly for takeoff at 3,300’ AMSL.
The mixture was never set full rich for takeoff at the higher PA; to do so would mean a reduction in power available.

Obviously?

Obviously to the critical experts on here 8)
#1885429
Rob P wrote:Engine stops in the cruise, the first action that I have briefed myself is to climb until the speed decays to best glide. That's 50-70 knots to trade for height. The extra altitude is safety in the bank.

Rob P


Exactly what I used to do in glider winch lanches. It's instinctive.
Rob P liked this
#1885431
Bill McCarthy wrote:Not once during the PPL syllabus on Condors at Rochester was I instructed on mixture control. Is it actually in the course these days ?

Exercise 4.2 -Use of supplementary controls.
Which are Throttle, Trim, Flap and Mixture. As is commonly found under your right hand.
MichaelP liked this
User avatar
By leiafee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1885621
Whatever you decide on speed wise (and you probably don’t know better than whatever the manual says) the chief thing I’d suggest is to not dither.

Know where you’re going and how fast you’re going there and then do it. It’s a time for doing what you practised as close as possible to how you practised it.

And don’t underestimate how massively emotionally and mentally difficult it is to choose a less than perfect, but reachable field, or to accept the fact you may overrun and stick at your field anyway rather than be tempted into trying for a different one late in the approach and stuffing that one up instead.

No prizes for guessing how I know that one!
Rob P, lobstaboy, kanga and 1 others liked this