Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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User avatar
By lobstaboy
#1885782
MattL wrote:
Loco parentis wrote:You wouldn't catch me at or in the same airfield never mind the same aircraft with someone who checks from memory !


Best hope you never have to visit a military airfield or fly in a military aircraft then


Or anywhere that allows Microlights.
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By skydriller
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1885788
Loco parentis wrote:You wouldn't catch me at or in the same airfield never mind the same aircraft with someone who checks from memory !


You are entitled to your own opinion, but I think that if you believe this, you may not understand what a checklist is for, which may mean that you are following it without understanding what the checks on it are accomplishing.

I do have an actual card checklist for the aeroplanes I fly, but that doesnt mean that I dont also do Left-Right-Left checks as @Rob P suggests...

Regards, SD..
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By Sooty25
#1885817
lobstaboy wrote:
MattL wrote:
Loco parentis wrote:You wouldn't catch me at or in the same airfield never mind the same aircraft with someone who checks from memory !


Best hope you never have to visit a military airfield or fly in a military aircraft then


Or anywhere that allows Microlights.


I wonder how many checklists have gone through the prop of a flex-wing! :D
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By patowalker
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1885828
Loco parentis wrote:You wouldn't catch me at or in the same airfield never mind the same aircraft with someone who checks from memory !


That could put a lot of airfields out of bounds.
By Loco parentis
#1885849
Well, well ! Struck a bit of a nerve there ! I work from a checklist because I do not, in its entirety, trust my memory. Maybe it is something to do with the intrusion of age or, then again, something to do with my aviator/airman/pilot schooling at the hands of RAF instructors who were dogmatic in their insistence on using checklists. In that respect at least I count myself fortunate.
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By TheFarmer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1885857
@Loco parentis

You do what you need to do.

The point @Rob P was making is that with a relatively simple (albeit high performance) aircraft, that he flies regularly, and therefore has familiarity, he simply doesn’t use one. I fall into the same category.

However, if I flew a more complex type, and/or flew much less frequently, I’d certainly use a checklist.

Everyone has their own way of performing to their best in the genitalpit. :thumleft:
MikeB, skydriller, townleyc and 1 others liked this
User avatar
By Rob L
#1885865
I used to fly regularly in loose formation with a C172 pilot (I don't know what basic C172 model it was, but it was fixed pitch, fixed gear 0-300 model). The pilot had many hundreds of hours on that particular airframe; more likely more than a thousand.

One day I saw said pilot performing the pre-flight checks with a written check-list, and I asked if they (sorry) did that every time?
"Yes", was the answer
"Why?" said I.
"Because that's what I was taught"

The pre-flight I saw was a shambles; pre-flight by rote is the best way to describe it. Said pilot had in excess of hundreds (maybe thousands) of hours on that particular airframe but still reverted to a written checklist and, to be honest,reverted to a student mentality.

Many years later, said PPL pilot voluntarily quit flying without any incident at all, but my recollection did make me worry about reliance on checklists of aircraft on which they could become too reliant without thinking about what they are checking.

With sufficient hours on type, a checklist becomes unnecessary.
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By Rob P
#1885883
It seems that the right to left progression hasn't been properly understood.

The last thing it relies on is memory.

You start at the extreme right of the panel (intercom switch in our case) and then progress towards the left, making sure every knob and switch is in the position you need it to be for the start-up. Usually touching them even if they are already in the correct position. You end up at the extreme left, which handily is the primer. Pump as required, then straight to the key and off you go.

Rob P
Dave W, JAFO, Miscellaneous and 2 others liked this
By proteus
#1885896
Loco parentis wrote:Well, well ! Struck a bit of a nerve there ! I work from a checklist because I do not, in its entirety, trust my memory. Maybe it is something to do with the intrusion of age or, then again, something to do with my aviator/airman/pilot schooling at the hands of RAF instructors who were dogmatic in their insistence on using checklists. In that respect at least I count myself fortunate.



If you don't trust your memory, how can you trust that you have done each item on your list and not missed one , or just performed the motion?

As others have said, you do what you're happy with. Having such worries about being on the same airfield as someone who doesn't seems totally over the top. Just think of how bad some of the road users are with paying attention, and you're driving along the road within feet of them with 120mph closing speeds.

Then again, I fly a relatively simple aircraft, I have the vast majority of my hours on it, it is only me who flies it, I know my checks and pretty much exactly how things should sound and feel as I go through them.
Rob P liked this
By Loco parentis
#1885897
One use for a check list - probably the most necessary - is to remind the user that omissions in a demanding environment have consequences. The user of a checklist is very much less likely to do or not to do something which creates a hazardous situation. Neglect has been cited as the cause in more than enough accident inquiries.

When reading from the checklist I look at the appropriate control and move my hand to either touch or, go close to or, point. I urge all of you; leave no stone unturned in pursuit of safety - you might not get a second chance !
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By TheFarmer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1885902
So, Loco, do you consider those of us who don’t choose to use physical checklists, less safe?
User avatar
By lobstaboy
#1885903
Loco parentis wrote:The user of a checklist is very much less likely to do or not to do something which creates a hazardous situation.


Really?
It would help your argument if you can back up that statement with some reliable evidence, please.
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