[MattL]

U.K. ANO 2016:

228. Personal Flying Log


(3) Detailed information about each flight during which the holder of the log acted either—

(a)as a member of the flight crew of an aircraft; or

(b)for the purpose of qualifying for the grant, renewal or revalidation of a licence, rating or certificate under this Order or Part-FCL,

must be recorded in the log as soon as reasonably practicable after the end of each flight.

[Flintstone]

There is one thing I really don't understand though, and that is going into soft grass strips with wheel skirts on.

But, if nobody had warned you, and this was your first landing in mud, you might not have thought about it.

Agreed Sooty. I was about to write that you don't know what you don't know. These things come with experience, most of us learn such things from our peers and I'm sure I'm not the only one who was told by his examiner I'd passed but that new qualification was only a licence to keep learning. Sadly this pilot didn't have much time to learn from those around him.

That said the AAIB reports suggests that he was someone who, at least from the examples cited, was disinclined to take advice or instruction. I say this knowing that the AAIB is a series of snapshots........examples.......not his whole story. But there are what to me at least were a number of warning flags, signs that he was prepared to break rules.

I too have lost friends several of whom brought about their own demise. Sometimes we need the distance of time to see the ones we love the way they really are or were, ourselves too. We're all flawed.

[JAFO]

There is one thing I really don't understand though, and that is going into soft grass strips with wheel skirts on.

From this AAIB report that is the thing you don't understand?

[Ibra]

There is one thing I really don't understand though, and that is going into soft grass strips with wheel skirts on.

From this AAIB report that is the thing you don't understand?

It’s all about manners @JAFO , they maketh man !

Who you think you are? coming to my place for stripping with skirts on

[proteus]

There is one thing I really don't understand though, and that is going into soft grass strips with wheel skirts on.

But, if nobody had warned you, and this was your first landing in mud, you might not have thought about it.

I get that, but from what we can tell, he'd been into this strip before so should have had an idea. and he'd visited at least one other private grass strip. He also was friends with people who did know a bit about that sort of flying.

[proteus]

There is one thing I really don't understand though, and that is going into soft grass strips with wheel skirts on.

From this AAIB report that is the thing you don't understand?

Yes, but this is also my perspective and the type of flying I do showing. When you land, park up and get out of the aircraft to find your feet sink into the ground not insignificantly it makes you acutely aware of ground conditions, and suitable machines thus for. The land up around there takes a long time to dry and firm up and gets soft really pretty quickly, especially north of the 66 in that area.

The other stuff all seems to be poor decisions at the time which lead to the outcome we have.

[Sooty25]

There is one thing I really don't understand though, and that is going into soft grass strips with wheel skirts on.

But, if nobody had warned you, and this was your first landing in mud, you might not have thought about it.

I get that, but from what we can tell, he'd been into this strip before so should have had an idea. and he'd visited at least one other private grass strip. He also was friends with people who did know a bit about that sort of flying.

whether he'd been in there before is potentially irrelevant. Our strip has the capability to go from rock hard, to borderline swamp, in a matter of days given the right conditions. Conditions that I'm currently watching on a daily basis at this time of year.

If we are going to question the fitment of spats based on "his intended type of flying", then you should probably question his choice of aeroplane completely.

[proteus]

But, if nobody had warned you, and this was your first landing in mud, you might not have thought about it.

I get that, but from what we can tell, he'd been into this strip before so should have had an idea. and he'd visited at least one other private grass strip. He also was friends with people who did know a bit about that sort of flying.

whether he'd been in there before is potentially irrelevant. Our strip has the capability to go from rock hard, to borderline swamp, in a matter of days given the right conditions. Conditions that I'm currently watching on a daily basis at this time of year.

If we are going to question the fitment of spats based on "his intended type of flying", then you should probably question his choice of aeroplane completely.

Ground conditions round the country can vary massively, I'm guessing your strip isn't in the lakes? Farming friends of mine have a bit of land very close to the airstrip and it is nearly always soft under foot. I've been to Troutbeck airfield a number of times and there have always been patches of softer ground, even at the height of summer.

That's nonsense, a 182 is very capable for stol and soft field operations, especially a king katmai. Taking a 182 with its wheels covered up into soft strips doesn't make sense to me.

[Josh]

Rex, thank you for taking the time to post about your friend. If you are not used to the culture of aviation these conversations can make for hard reading. I am into double figures of the number of people I know who have died in aircraft accidents and that definitely colours my view. The one who hit hardest was a friend who died after being refuelled with the incorrect fuel type - I found that very hard to rationalise for a long time. Loss of control while doing low level aerobatics also figures prominently. I thought about writing a lot more, but ultimately I can’t improve on Flintstone’s final paragraph.

I too have lost friends several of whom brought about their own demise. Sometimes we need the distance of time to see the ones we love the way they really are or were, ourselves too. We're all flawed.

[TheFarmer]

I'm based at a strip similar to Troutbeck, we require PPR. At places like this, it is important and this case proves it. I feel so sorry for the strip owner. He has attempted to make things as safe as he can for potential visitors and still this happens. It was completely out of his control. Yet, this will hang around in memories for years.

What more could he have done? Pretty much nothing short of confiscating keys and banning the departure completely.

Couldn’t agree more.

A few years ago a Tomahawk landed on one of my smaller strips. The strip was 400 metres long, well kept, but with trees and power lines to the eastern end, and a clear approach on 08.

It was a warm day, and I drove over to find out who it was, assuming he had a technical issue. First of all, out climbed his wife. Well, she clearly had a Ginsters habit, and only just managed to extricate herself onto the wing. As she stepped down off the wing, the aircraft almost heaved a sigh of relief. She wandered over to me and shook my hand with hers. It was all sweaty. I remember it well.

Then he appeared, skinnier than a racing snake, very bouncy and energetic, and very polite and charming. We exchanged the usual ‘this strip is PPR only, and your aircraft isn’t suitable for it on a warm day, two up, and with no wind’ stuff, but he seemed oblivious.

‘That’ll be ok’ he said. This old bird gets out of anywhere. I wasn’t sure if he was talking about the PA38 or his wife. Having just seen the latter extricate herself from the aircraft, I assume he meant her.

After a few minutes I think he read my feelings about his unplanned arrival and he decided to depart. I said he couldn’t leave with his passenger because the national grid cables were only 700 metres from the far end of the runway, and no matter how STOL he thought his Tomahawk was, he wouldn’t make it.

A few curt remarks were exchanged, and in the end she told him to do what I said. I agreed that I would take her to another strip which was 800 metres long, and with clear approaches.

He departed, just. He had to turn in front of the wires/pylon, and for 20 seconds or so his wife and I stood there in silence watching.

We also had a pretty quiet trip to the second strip where I dropped her off and left her to walk over to him. I was so cross that I knew I’d say something I’d regret.

Anyway, a few weeks later, I received a phone call saying that I’d put him in jeopardy because the strip was so narrow that it made it look longer from the air!! Yes, it was only 15 metres wide, and yes, perhaps it did make it look longer, but does that really mean I’m at fault for having a strip like that, that suited my aircraft and flying? It wasn’t publicised anywhere, and he had arrived without permission. He got quite animated and said I’d endangered him and his aircraft. He was a totally different man in the phone to the one I’d met at the strip.

These people are out there. Be very careful who you allow in to your airstrips.


As an aside, every time I see a PA38 now, I can’t help picture that lady scrabbling around to get out of one. It was a bit like a sea lion trying to rush to get a piece of fish.

[PeteSpencer]

Interestingly , the party who arrived at our strip a few years ago without PPR or safety briefing, landed at the strip and cartwheeled twice into the crops alongside (there was a witness), in his self-penned AAIB report blamed mud from the strip in his wheel spats.

Despite the fact that it was summer, we had had no rain for over a month, and our strip, being over gravelly soil, drains in minutes after any rain.

[IainD]

Knettishall not known for being muddy even in the wettest of winters

[Ibra]

in his self-penned AAIB report blamed mud from the strip in his wheel spats

That is naughty and unfair, he could have used the famous "hit by a gust" and move on

[Sooty25]

That's nonsense, a 182 is very capable for stol and soft field operations, especially a king katmai. Taking a 182 with its wheels covered up into soft strips doesn't make sense to me.

he wasn't flying a 182

[Genghis the Engineer]

If he wasn't putting flights in his personal logbook, and was sole owner of the aeroplane, it seems entirely plausible that he wasn't putting flights into the tech log either.

G

Maybe so, however the last time I entered hours in my logbook (2 years ago) it was passing 13000 hours, but I still keep my aircraft records exactly up to date, after a while logbook hours become irrelevant.

But when you have under 100 hours, they're definitely not irrelevant.

G