Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
#1887104
Hi everyone,
I have only just been made aware of Alan Kilbrides tragic death.
I was Alan's cousin and although we were very close as kids we didn't keep contact really, apart from the exchange of family Christmas cards.
Could anyone tell me what really happened ? I don't want to distress my auntie Norma (Alan's mum) any further, she is a very private person.
Many thanks for any help, Gary.
#1887123
Gary Edwards wrote:Could anyone tell me what really happened ?

Not at this stage, no.

The Air Accident Investigation Board will report in due course, could be as much as a year hence.

Rob P
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#1887220
Rob P wrote:
Gary Edwards wrote:Could anyone tell me what really happened ?

Not at this stage, no.

The Air Accident Investigation Board will report in due course, could be as much as a year hence.


And you may wish to spare yourself and any closer family even that. Bar perhaps the summary.

We had a family member die in circumstances requiring the marine equivalent of the AAIB report and it was downright harrowing for all invovled.

I can understand the desire for closure but do think carefully and clearly when the time comes about what you might find yourself reading.

It will include detail on injuries and cause of death and survivabilty, it will include comments on the person’s decision making and general perceived character, which may be emotionally easier to not know.

Do be mindful of your and your family’semotional needs going into such a read once it becomes available.
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#1888188
Three safety recommendations made. It is absolutely tragic that a seat sliding backwards has caused yet another avoidable fatality. I seem to remember Cessna having a massive $480m judgement against them over 20 years ago for the same issue. I can't believe it is still happening.

First time I have seen the Pilotaware ATOM GRID network data being used by the AAIB in a report. Confirmation of the credibility that Pilotaware have achieved with authorities that matter.
#1888205
BBC gist of AAIB:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-59652403

I had seat move back on rotation for takeoff only once, when dual on first lesson in a C150 with (WW2 era) CFI after previous flying on C140s and Colts/TriPacers. On those it had never been a problem; Pipers had bench seats which were a pain to move so rarely were and seat positions suited my leg length, while tailwheel 140 meant that if seat was unlatched you slid back while static or taxiing.

CFI knew I hadn't done a good 'seat wiggle check' at holding point but let me make the error, instantly taking control. He then laconically said 'you'll never do that again, will you ?' :? .. I never did! Perhaps he should have briefed me about the hazard.. It was particularly important, of course, on the 172s (etc) with 2 rear seat passengers, as I usually had to slide P1 seat right forward to let them get in and for me to check their harnesses and headsets, then right back to let me get in, then partway forward for my optimal control position. Later ones, of course, had the restraining strap mod.
#1888210
With apologies to the family member on here if this in any way causes upset, but to return to the original thread: why can't there be some kind of human right to suffer grief in private, without the media amplifying their misfortune all over the internet?

I am sure that there is someone in the BBC whose job it is to subscribe to AAIB updates and to either write articles based on each report, or forward the reports onto regional teams to get them to do so. But why? Is it really newsworthy? Is it really necessary? Isn't it just voyeuristic gawkerism at worst, lazy journalism at best?

I can't imagine how upsetting and distressing it must be for anyone who has lost a loved one to see their name and details of their misfortune appear in the press; to have repeated mentions at certain milestones must be doubly awful.

I appreciate that this is woefully naive of me, hopelessly optimistic and possibly I'm in the minority, but I just feel there should be some law to offer protection for people who have suffered misfortune, that says they have a right to suffer that misfortune privately, without broadcast. And, that if names are to be published, next-of-kin consent must be obtained.

This isn't just a question of 'accidents' either; I've always felt really saddened that when we have public coroner inquests (have I got that right?) for people who tragically take their own life, most of these end up as a news story in the local press. It's just so unnecessary?

As I've said previously, one of the things that worries me the most as a new(ish) pilot is the idea that if I make a mistake, not only do I suffer the embarrassment amongst my peers (assuming it is a survivable mistake), but depending on severity I may be named and shamed in the press, to be judged by people who have no context and no real understanding of the issues.

Edited to note that, in fact, neither the BBC or Yorkshire regional press published any names, which is good (and unusual!)
#1889172
I’ve been eyeballing the seat adjustment mod for the Skyranger ever since buying it. Maybe I’ll just stick to my cushion a while longer. :(

And I’llreally slam myself about doing the seat security check next time I fly something which does have adjustable seats. I invariably do need the foremost position.

I’m pretty vigorous with that check anyway, having once watched from the ground a very scary takeoff where someone’s seat had let go. That had two pilots on board and was recovered.
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#1889238
flyingearly

How many GA pilots would have even been aware there had been an accident had they not read about it in the media?

How many GA pilots trawl through AAIB reports to discover accident causes? Answer: Not nearly enough!

How many GA pilots will now check their seat security before going flying because they’ve read about this accident in the media or on here, which is the same thing.

We are denied the opportunity of learning from others’ misfortune if we are unaware. Should any such accident befall me, I would want the cause shouting from the rooftops to prevent others following. That’s why I’m proud to be an aviator. Even in death we look out for others!

The coverage of this incident is very different from the publication of ‘last moments’ from a CVR, which I agree, would be nasty voyeurism.
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#1889246
Here is it happening in a C182 with a good recovery.



Mate I used to fly with in 152s/172s always used to encourage a good wiggle in the seat during the hatches and harnesses check to (hopefully) ensure the teeth were properly engaged in the rails. Had a car seat slide back while accelerating off some traffic lights once which was just a bit non-plussing fortunately !
#1889253
A4 Pacific wrote:flyingearly

How many GA pilots would have even been aware there had been an accident had they not read about it in the media?

How many GA pilots trawl through AAIB reports to discover accident causes? Answer: Not nearly enough!

How many GA pilots will now check their seat security before going flying because they’ve read about this accident in the media or on here, which is the same thing.

We are denied the opportunity of learning from others’ misfortune if we are unaware. Should any such accident befall me, I would want the cause shouting from the rooftops to prevent others following. That’s why I’m proud to be an aviator. Even in death we look out for others!

The coverage of this incident is very different from the publication of ‘last moments’ from a CVR, which I agree, would be nasty voyeurism.


That's not quite what I meant. No-one is suggesting that the AIIB shouldn't continue to publish reports - they are an objective, anonymised, facts-based analysis of the events and should be disseminated widely.

My point is that the BBC, Daily Mail, regional newspapers etc do not publish news reports on aircraft accidents for the benefit of pilots. It's just titillating clickbait that isn't actually that interesting to anybody.

Whenever there is an accident, there is often a live-text page with updates on what has happened, usually with lots of comically-incorrect remarks.

Often, there is an article when there is really 'no story to see here':

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-g ... e-59596298 - runway excursion due x-wind

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/no ... t-22125264 - forced landing in field

In this particular case, I agree that the story was pretty factual and decent, but I'd suggest this is the exception rather than the norm.

The problem is that such mainstream press perpetuates the image that general aviation is dangerous, with a high likelihood of a crash - and they take routine procedures like a go-around and dumb them down into something they are not.

If this were non-aviation we'd all just shrug our shoulders and say 'so what', but the fact a light aircraft is involved gives licence to make it dramatic.

Take this AAIB report as an example: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... _03-18.pdf

And then read the BBC report: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-b ... s-43316303

Whereabouts in the AAIB report did they say that it 'plunged'? Why don't we stop these half measures and now make any accident anywhere, or any sort, something that should be publicised across global media?:

- - - - -

Joanne Bloggs miraculously escaped injury after her 1,340kg Toyota Prius crashed at Tesco Extra supermarket last Friday.

The vehicle, in which she was driving solo, was said by eye-witnesses to have scratched another vehicle during the attempted maneauvure, described by others as 'reverse parking'.

Conditions on the day were described as benign, although concerns had previously been raised by others following reports of a large number of trolleys in the area.

The crash resulted in a rapid multi-agency emergency response. Nobody was injured in the crash.

The Prius - registration GV45 2XY - had previously been involved in a crash in 2014 after suffering a high-speed puncture whilst on the M25.

Suffolk Police tweeted: 'our teams were called to a multi-vehicle collision at Tesco earlier this morning at 9:48am. Officers were on the scene within 8 minutes".

The matter will now be passed to the accident driver's insurers for analysis.
#1889261
flyingearly wrote:
My point is that the BBC, Daily Mail, regional newspapers etc do not publish news reports on aircraft accidents for the benefit of pilots. It's just titillating clickbait that isn't actually that interesting to anybody.



Well, self evidently, if it's titillating clickbait it must be sufficiently interesting or they wouldn't do it.
The story may well be hyped with plunging into puppy farms - but the press do this with everything, with every story. Selling clicks (or even newspapers) is what the media are for.
#1889265
#flyingearly

FYI

I lost my best friend in life in an air accident. He was the pilot of an aircraft involved in an horrific crash that was top of every single TV news bulletin for at least two weeks, and very regularly revisited over many subsequent years. It may have been the worst day of my life so far! Not helped by the fact that for many years he was unfairly criticised.

I have lost many other friends in widely reported air accidents over a number of years. I don’t require an expansive patronising and sarcastic lecture.

My opinion is my opinion. On the basis of experiences of which I am currently unaware, yours is yours.

I will leave further debate to you.