Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By A4 Pacific
#1882186
18 months in prison.

Sentence to commence immediately.

Will serve half of sentence before being released on licence.

It’s important this sentence is widely broadcast amongst the aviation community.
By Stampe
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1882205
Surely the real question is why it took a tragic fatal accident for our incompetent Civil Aviation Authority to tackle the illegal grey charter industry which has been operating very visibly over many decades.We all knew it was going on why did this tragedy have to happen before any action?
Regards Stampe Fly Safe Considerate Compliant.
Rob P, anglianav8r liked this
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By Josh
#1882230
I note the CAA are paying to have their statement and the news highlighted - it’s appeared as sponsored content on a number of my social media feeds.
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By mikehallam
#1882236
If as you state 'Stampe' " everone knew about the grey charters", why didn't you and/or others now complaining about our CAA do/say something about it yourselves ?
Seems so far that all those who "knew" are as compliant as the one who got caught !
Last edited by mikehallam on Fri Nov 12, 2021 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
GrahamB, AlanM, ak7274 and 5 others liked this
By ak7274
#1882241
mikehallam wrote:If as you state 'Stampe' " everone knew about the grey charters", why didn't you and/or other now complaining about our CAA do/say something about it yourselves ?
Seems so far that all those who "knew" are as compliant as the one who got caught !


Yes Mike and I am probably as guilty too. I have no excuse other than the usual whistleblower consequences. Especially as there are so many loopholes in the system, that anyone "grassing" will usually be ostracised by others.
AlanM liked this
By AlanM
#1882244
I reckon that at least 70% of us know someone who has definitely done, or is suspected of a dodgy charter.

And that less than 1% of us have ever done anything about it.

NATS and the CAA always considered Airspace infringements as the biggest risk in terms of safety and a potential loss of life. I always struggled with that, considering the safety nets used. Compare that to grey/illegal charters.

What do you reckon?
Last edited by AlanM on Fri Nov 12, 2021 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
AndyR, Iceman, aligee and 2 others liked this
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By Genghis the Engineer
#1882260
AlanM wrote:I reckon that at least 70% of us know someone who has definitely done, or is suspected of a dodgy charter.

And that less than 1% of us have ever done anything about it.

NATS and the CAA always considered Airspace infringements as the biggest risk in terms of safety and a potential loss of life. I always struggled with that, considering the safety nets used. Compare that to grey/illegal charters.

What do you reckon?


I know of people who have firmly and loudly taken to task the people doing these illegal charters. Who clearly didn't listen.

At what point is the right answer then to snitch? You can do that openly and get a reputation that makes you somebody people steer clear of, or provide them with a confidential "snitchline" system, in which case you will create a big headache for everybody as that starts to become a tool for malicious complaints. It's not easy is it.

Infringements are a big deal because they cost the airlines money and annoyance, they aren't the major safety threat for the reasons you state, many robust safety nets, which are still there..

G
By AlanM
#1882264
I respectfully disagree with you. If you see someone getting in a car about to drive when drunk I am sure you will report it. Does that differ when you know someone is getting consideration for flying someone?

As for infringements - you may well have missed my point. Infringements can have the impact as you describe but that was not the drive for preventing them. It was the risk of downing an airliner, not me vectoring a jet 5nm from it.

The main safety net for illegal charters is probably the aviation community. It is frankly rife and always has been.

Normalisation of Deviance returns.
A4 Pacific, gaznav liked this
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By Rob P
#1882266
Loco parentis wrote:Henderson appeal submitted. It's not over yet !


Any sensible judge looking at the facts as we know them would be justified in doubling the sentence. That poor young man died as a direct consequence of his actions.

An appeal is simply taking the p*ss on a 'why not, we've nothing to lose' basis

Rob P
A4 Pacific, Katamarino, Nick liked this
By Mutley
#1882268
I know of someone who was contacted by the CAA and accused of making in illegal public transport flight. His response was "prove it". He never heard from them again.

Without the pilot's co-operation there was no way that the CAA could find out who the passengers were. Without knowing who the passengers were there was no way that the CAA could find out whether they paid for the flight or not. It's harder than you might imagine to prove that someone has paid for a flight without their co-operation.
By AlanM
#1882277
@Mutley

It will be interesting to see if that is the case nowadays, post Henderson.

Anyone is being very naive if they think that bank records, Phone messages etc are not scrutinised in a serious occurrence.
Flyin'Dutch' liked this
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