[Matth1542]

Good Afternoon,
I am hoping there is someone on here that can help me find what I need. I did my initial IR(r) in 2019, which sadly expired at the end of April this year as I wasnt able to renew it in time.
In June I moved house and changed the address receiving my new licence back but as the IR(r) had expired it was put on the back of the licence.
I completed a few hours training and then did the renewal test and passed, yay. But was told by the caa i needed to send in form 1125 which is the application for a new rating.

https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SR ... nabled.pdf


Sections 5-8 seem to cover the initial issue of the licence, so i returned the form with these not filled in, and a cover note explaining.
I have had an email saying that I need to complete the course completion certificate, but I havent done another course I am just renewing!!
I seem to be going round in circles, or course I cant get hold of anyone to actually speak to at the caa who has any idea what I am talking about, and emails go unanswered.

Is there anyone that has been through this rigmarole, or an instructor on here that can point me in the direction of what I am meant to do?
I find it farsicle that the caa are so unable to help, although am not surprised…

Thank you!

[Capt Edmund]

It should be 1125 completed in full with details of your lapsed rating in 4 and filled in to state that it was a reduced course of training as you previously held the rating bits in 5 along with the course completion bit. And don't forget to auth them to bill you as they'll need to reprint your license. Really your examiner should have gone through all this with you, especially as they have to fill in the course completion stuff so I'd track them down first.

[MattL]

There is no course required and no need for a course completion certificate, the case officer is wrong - what you have done is fine. Get your FE to speak to the CAA or go straight to raise a complaint via the complaints procedure if they still refuse to process it. I’m currently spending hours each week dealing with applications where the desk officer doesn’t know the regulations.

The alternative if you want to play the box ticking game is get the instructor who did your refresher training to fill in what training you did; but it’s not required as it is a National rating.

[Irv Lee]

And yet when it finally comes through, its issue will be in management measurement reports as delivered within agreed timeframe

[Matth1542]

There is no course required and no need for a course completion certificate, the case officer is wrong - what you have done is fine. Get your FE to speak to the CAA or go straight to raise a complaint via the complaints procedure if they still refuse to process it. I’m currently spending hours each week dealing with applications where the desk officer doesn’t know the regulations.

The alternative if you want to play the box ticking game is get the instructor who did your refresher training to fill in what training you did; but it’s not required as it is a National rating.

Thank you, this was my understanding if it. Looking at the shortened course part of s4 none of them seem to apply, and reading cap804 I certainly says i dont need to do a course.
I replied to the chap that emailed me trying to explain this. I will wait to see what he says and will raise a complaint if i am not getting anywhere

[tailbob]

Any licence reprint which is required to renew a rating and put it back on the front of the licence generates the £93 renewal/revalidation charge as in ORS5 374 3.8g. This is why the 1125 is required to complete the payment page. Lesson is never change your licence address unless all your ratings are valid.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Interesting, I'd be interested if anybody knows different on my position.

I *had* an IR(R), which expires this coming January. However it vanished off any licences I have when I SOLId my UK-EASA licence to Ireland, as my non-FCL national CPL has embedded IMCR privileges anyhow with no expiry, albeit that for most purposes that's useless as the various exemptions limit me to day VFR in part 21 aeroplanes on that licence. In the meantime I have a full and current IR on both licences, which is much more useful, but has a shorter shelf life.

Early next year I should get around to getting a new UK-FCL licence, and it's my intention to get my IR(R) back on it, by which time it'll probably be lapsed. (Also the FCL945 that seems to have vanished, but that's another story).

Now, my hope an intention is that when I do my next IR reval (due October 2022) I'll ask the examiner to revalidate my now lapsed IR(R) at the same time on what should by then be a UK-FCL CPL. As I understand it, that's just paperwork having passed the IR anyhow.

Am I right, or is there some process I'm missing?

G

[Ibra]

As I understand it, that's just paperwork having passed the IR anyhow.
Am I right, or is there some process I'm missing?

Not if you do IR reval in the sim

If you have done you IR reval in an aircraft, it’s possible to sign IMCR/IRR at same time, however the examiner may insist on adding the famous “PPL/IMCR bad weather circuit” to be able to sign your IMCR/IRR as well (after mine was signed, I told the IRE that a similar freestyle low bad weather circuit is probably the most dangerous and stupidest thing an IFR pilot can do in real life, he smiled)

PS: it’s illegal to circle bellow 400ft OCH with cloud-base at 410ft, this applies even when a circling procedure is published to the active runway for both VFR & IFR flyers, let alone at 300ft agl with no CTL published for Stapleford 21L

[Cookie]

If you have done you IR reval in an aircraft, it’s possible to sign IMCR/IRR at same time, however the examiner may insist on adding the famous “PPL/IMCR bad weather circuit” to be able to sign your IMCR/IRR as well

Bad weather circuit is a required part of the profile for IR(R)/IMC Skill Tests and Proficiency Checks.

ATB Cookie

[PeteSpencer]

Interesting, I'd be interested if anybody knows different on my position.


Early next year I should get around to getting a new UK-FCL licence, and it's my intention to get my IR(R) back on it, by which time it'll probably be lapsed. (Also the FCL945 that seems to have vanished, but that's another story).

Now, my hope an intention is that when I do my next IR reval (due October 2022) I'll ask the examiner to revalidate my now lapsed IR(R) at the same time on what should by then be a UK-FCL CPL. As I understand it, that's just paperwork having passed the IR anyhow.

Am I right, or is there some process I'm missing?

G

I have a long lapsed piggyback FAA/IR which ignore now as my US renting/ touring days are over.

For the last ten years ,every other year when I have my annual CAA/UK IR revalidation flight I have asked my examiner to sign off my biennial PPL review and my IR(R) .I elect to forgo the 25 th month of the IR(R) to retain the same renewal date . Occas have to do a bit extra like bad weather circuit for IR(R) but it keeps everything tidy .

Except that the COVID ‘paper’ IR extension has now pushed the IR renewal dates forward a coupla months! So a bit of re-thinking now required

[Ibra]

Bad weather circuit is a required part of the profile for IR(R)/IMC Skill Tests and Proficiency Checks.

Ignoring non-IFR pilots, in what cases a IMCR/IRR/IR pilot would opt to fly visual circuit or circling bellow 400ft agl? if it’s above 500ft agl, it’s just a normal VFR circuit

If it’s bad weather concerns, that goes against the common sense of climbing above MSA on runway axis straight into the soft, having a cup of tea in clouds and coming back to fly straight-in on GPS or divert to somewhere with an IAP and long runway? if it’s engine concerns, why one would go and bank tightly at 400ft agl on a rough engine?

Under IFR, the whole thing does not make sense, you can’t turn bellow 400ft agl on takeoff from instrument runways more than +/-20deg and you can’t circle bellow 400ft agl to non-instrument runways

Under VFR, at some point one has to level his wings and nail speed for stable visual approach? I was told 300ft agl in gliding and power is a good number

Another aberration, the ANO allow one on circle to land from AIP to descend to DH minima on straight-in (say 200ft) before climbing back to CTL minima (say 500ft) but at least the descente bellow 400ft is done on runway axis rather than in the circuit…

Bad weather circuit is good coordination & handling skill, just like wingovers (the most efficient way to do quick 180) but I would not do one bellow 500ft agl in real life

[MattL]

Where are you getting below 400ft from?

Concept is that the IRR holder becomes visual at their minima - 500/600ft - but is either not nicely aligned or a bit fast/ not configured etc, so they then complete a bad weather visual circuit remaining visual at 500/600ft AGL round to land.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Thanks for that folks. Yes, I'll do my next IR reval in the aircraft and get the IR(R) revalidated (assuming I've managed to persuade CAA to put it back on my UK-FCL licence, and for that matter actually issued a UK-FCL licence by then).

Incidentally, for the sake of the paperwork, it's worth getting, surely, both SEP and IR(R) revalidated at *each* IR revalidation, then you're just continuously futureproofing yourself.

Personally, I am totally on board with the value of a circling approach being added into the skill test. It's a requirement of the FAA IR checkride, and more than once in my life I've come back in somewhere where the available instrument approach is not the in-use landing runway, so they have value, not just as a "bad weather circuit". If the examiner wants one, he'll get one.

G

[Genghis the Engineer]

Out of interest, I just scanned the combined cat A IAPs. The lowest circling height I can see is 400ft at Ronaldsway with a few others between that and 500ft but most rather higher. So a sub-400ft circling approach (or "bad weather circuit" if you like that term better) would be illegal on any basis.

One thing I hadn't noticed before is that very very few GNSS plates give circling minima at-all. Not none, but very few.

G

[Ibra]

Where are you getting below 400ft from?

Concept is that the IRR holder becomes visual at their minima - 500/600ft - but is either not nicely aligned or a bit fast/ not configured etc, so they then complete a bad weather visual circuit remaining visual at 500/600ft AGL round to land.

That makes more sense and in-line with a circle-to-land

But it's not what I did: I did the takeoff then climb to 500ft, told there are some clouds and circled at 300ft to land...