Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By flyingeeza
#1877626
Someone was waffling on at length about complete nonsense on the Safety Com frequency today at around 16:30 local for around 5 minutes while I was flying past that MOD wasteland called Henlow...until I told them to "Stop nattering on this frequency"

My transmission was acknowledged with one single short burst of carrier frequency only (a half second of hiss) so the prat knew he was in breach of the regs.

No more waffling...

Several half minute nattering sessions about say how good "it" looked...whatever "it" was, on Safety Com are a serious breach of the regulations.

If he's reading this, feel free to contact me via PM for a face to face chat about your disregard of the regulations.
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By A4 Pacific
#1877631
Not to minimise your point. You’re absolutely right!

May I add, try listening out on 121.5 when you’re crossing the Atlantic. There’s literally no limit to the number of “ball game” scores you will hear. Nor the number of animal noises you will listen to! :roll:
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By ROG
#1877667
I"ve had someone landing on same runway numbers, somewhere else, who didn"t once mention the airfield. Seems to be quite common practice.!!
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By Iceman
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1877669
Unfortunately, it was a system that was introduced in the UK only in recent years and a lot of pilots really don’t appreciate how to use it. In the US, uncontrolled fields have had Unicom for many years, hence its use is second nature and wholly engrained in trainee pilots from day 1.

Indeed, at one point last year when all of the tower staff had been struck by COVID, even the large, international Vegas McCarran was operating on Unicom, with all big jets just announcing their intentions. It requires the sort of discipline that is all too lacking in many UK pilots.

Iceman 8)
Last edited by Iceman on Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1877673
Iceman wrote:Unfortunately, it was a system that was introduced in the UK only in recent years and a lot of pilots really don’t appreciate how to use it. In the US, uncontrolled fields have had Unicom for many years, hence its use is second nature and wholly ingrained in trainee pilots from day 1.

The only reason it was on my radar, so to speak, was as a result of doing some flying in the USA back in the 90s.

I've visited a few fields that use SafetyCom recently, and although I know about it, I'm so out of practice that I have to make a real effort to remember to add the field name at the end of the calls as well as at the beginning.

I would imagine it's actually quite difficult to train for - I bet student pilots very rarely visit airfields that use SafetyCom, and if all you've done is note the bit about it in CAP413 it's unlikely to sink in.
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By skydriller
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1877682
There is also a common A/A frequency in France : 123.5

This is used by many airstrips around France and even though they have always had this concept, still some pilots forget to start their transmission with the aerodrome they are addressing - which may or may not lead to a cheek-clenching few seconds as you franticly scan around you - until it dawns that the guy is actually in a different region completely. Additionally you will sometimes hear "Jean-Claude" asking how "Pierre" is and that he will also fly over the beach if its OK there etc..

Not very proffesional, but hey... "inset gallic shrug smiley"...

Regards, SD..
By Cessna571
#1877696
I did half of my training at a SafetyCom airfield!

(Before they got their own frequency in the grand “cheap frequency give away” that happened when we went 8.33)

It embedded that it’s a real frequency for serious use.


I’ve taken part in a couple of formation training flights where there was discussion about how to chat to each other.

From what I recall we used 123.45

But one of the participants (an airline captain) wasn’t 100% happy about using a frequency, any frequency, for our air to air chat.
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By PeteSpencer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1877705
lobstaboy wrote:There needs to be a legal air to air frequency for the chat. Safetycom might then be used properly


When Safetycom was first introduced with a fanfare of trumpets, the CAA in CAP 413 omitted the instruction to 'top and TAIL' the transmissions leading to massive confusion in areas where many strips had the same orientation into the prevailing winds (E Anglia is a case in point), especially with poor R/T technique or squelch chopping off the initial airfield identifier.

(The US had been topping and tailing Unicom, upon which Safetycom was supposedly based, for years)

It was thanks to the late Richard Warriner (WKWanderer of this parish) and others who engaged with the producers of CAP413 and finally got the 'tail' instruction included.
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By lobstaboy
#1877718
Cessna571 wrote:
But one of the participants (an airline captain) wasn’t 100% happy about using a frequency, any frequency, for our air to air chat.


And he was correct of course.
It’s worth noting that Microlights have a discrete air to air frequency (129.835 I think) as well as the microlight air to ground frequency of 129.830 that many microlight fields are licenced to use
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By russp
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1877720
lobstaboy wrote:There needs to be a legal air to air frequency for the chat. Safetycom might then be used properly


There is .. at least for microlights - https://www.bmaa.org/news/bmaa-news/new ... -frequency.

Most GA I know uses 123.450 for A->A chat .. it's the chat channel for CAT when out of ground based radio range so doesn't seem to clash with anything.. although almost no-one uses call signs/regs on it - think everyone realises using it is a very grey area at best!
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By PeteSpencer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1877726
I never could fathom why microlights and gliders can have their own allocated air-to-air frequency yet GA in the absence of their own frequency are regarded as law-breaking pariahs if they improvise on a silent frequency.

Peter :wink:
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By malcolmfrost
#1877728
russp wrote:
lobstaboy wrote:There needs to be a legal air to air frequency for the chat. Safetycom might then be used properly


There is .. at least for microlights - https://www.bmaa.org/news/bmaa-news/new ... -frequency.

Most GA I know uses 123.450 for A->A chat .. it's the chat channel for CAT when out of ground based radio range so doesn't seem to clash with anything.. although almost no-one uses call signs/regs on it - think everyone realises using it is a very grey area at best!

ICAO Annex 10 states that “123.45 Mhz shall be designated for use as an Air-to-Air communications channel to enable aircraft engaged in flights over remote and oceanic areas, out of range of VHF ground stations, to exchange necessary operational information and to facilitate the resolution of operational problems“.

:D :D
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By lobstaboy
#1877736
PeteSpencer wrote:I never could fathom why microlights and gliders can have their own allocated air-to-air frequency yet GA in the absence of their own frequency are regarded as law-breaking pariahs if they improvise on a silent frequency.

Peter :wink:


It’s because Microlights and gliders count as ‘air sports’ and have successfully argued that this means air to air comms is needed
The rest of GAv is allowed air to ground comms only so they don’t need an air to air frequency. NB safetycom is not an air to air frequency- no two way communication is allowed on it, only self announcing.
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