Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
By Dominie
#1876225
At the recent LAA Rally, I landed on the grass and turned off 03R at a decent speed as instructed in the AIC. Some way from the runway (about halfway to the taxiway) I heard the aircraft behind me call "overshooting", presumably because he considered I was still on the runway. This surprised me as I thought I was well clear at that stage.

Now, I know that at most airports there's a yellow line across a concrete taxiway which defines the extent of a hard runway. I have searched without success for a definition of what the corresponding position is for a grass runway where there are no such ground markings, especially halfway up the runway. This is not mentioned in the Rally AIC, nor the AIP. Please would someone here will enlighten me whether I was in the wrong?
#1876231
'Overshooting'. That is not a UK flight expression that I personally would understand?
Did he mean he was 'Going around'?...In which case don't worry about it. You did nothing wrong. It was his problem to space himself accordingly behind you and go around if he couldn't land safely.
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By CloudHound
#1876234
This is the CAA reference document
https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP%20168%20Issue11_Licensing%20of%20Aerodromes%2013032019.pdf
This is a good general rule
Taxiway holding bays and holding positions
3.100 A taxi-holding position or positions should be established on the taxiway, at the
intersection of a taxiway and a runway. At grass aerodromes where taxiways
are not provided, aircraft should hold no closer to the runway than the runway
holding position sign


So at Sywell it would be the line from A2 to B2 parallel to the runway .
By Lefty
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1876238
There doesn’t seem to be any requirement to mark the outer edges of grass runways, nor in fact a require that to mark the centre line. Whilst many grass centre-lines are marked, most grass airfields only mark the runway edges at the thresholds of each runway.

You also need to remember that runway widths can vary quite a lot. For example Waltham’s 25/07 and 21/03 are 45m wide whereas Sywell’s concrete 21/03 - and their 21/03 grass are both only 30m wide.
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By muffin
FLYER Club Member (reader)  FLYER Club Member (reader)
#1876242
If I were in that situation I too would probably say that I was overshooting as that is what I was taught to say many years ago. I don’t know quite when it changed to going around but old habits die hard in moments of stress.
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By Rob L
#1876244
Lefty wrote:There doesn’t seem to be any requirement to mark the outer edges of grass runways....
(my heavy snip, sorry Lefty)

If a grass runway* is Licenced, then the extremities and the numbers need to be marked (like the licenced grass runways at Leicester & I'm sure at White Waltham too).
Rob



* If it's a "landing area" (like what they had when aerodromes were circular) I'm sure the rules are different.

I like the Australian term "ALA" (Aeroplane Landing Areas). Mind you, upon reflection, that looks a lot like the UK CAA equivalent :shock:
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By gaznav
#1876247
@muffin

That must have been over 35 years ago, as I seem to recall that “overshoot” was replaced with “go around” in the mid 80s. The military persisted but as many NATO nations, including the USA, think that “overshoot” is running off the end of the runway, then they changed to “go around” too.

The same for the military that used to use “roll” rather than “touch and go”. We have come into line with that too. So all are saying “touch and go” and “go around” apart from the odd dinosaur like me that might just be reverting to youth memories! :lol:
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By Flying_john
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1876253
Used to be 30metres between runway and aircraft before the runway was considered vacated and seem to remember it was a classic question in the FISO exams that Angelika used to remind us wannabees taking the exam, that it cropped up in almost every exam.
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By Flyin'Dutch'
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1876259
Lefty wrote:You also need to remember that runway widths can vary quite a lot. For example Waltham’s 25/07 and 21/03 are 45m wide whereas Sywell’s concrete 21/03 - and their 21/03 grass are both only 30m wide.


Only!

When I did my PPL at Hinton the RWY was 600m short and 9m wide.

30 meters? An ocean!
#1876264
For a Code 1 non-instrument runway (less than 800m) which can be 18 to 23m wide then the runway strip extends 30m each side of the runway centreline and you would be deemed to have vacated beyond this point. Equally a holding point would be set at this distance.

If the runway is significantly wider than the above the the runway strip is 21m from the runway edge.

CAP168
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By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1876268
muffin wrote:moments of stress.

:roll:

So you're on final. You see the guy landing in front of you. It's getting a bit tight.

"Mm, starting to look a bit like a go-around. Let's see if he expedites....

.... ah well, not quite quick enough, I should have slowed down a bit earlier..."

<smooth application of power>
<gentle pitch up>
<"G-XX going around">

Where's the stress?
Charles Hunt liked this
By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1876272
malcolmfrost wrote:LAA rally at Sywell!!

Well there is that... but where's the fun if you don't have to go back round the hold, mixing it up with all the berks that haven't read the AIC...

... at least three times.

It's the excitement of that that makes the glass of wine once on the ground so enjoyable afterwards.

#redbiplane.