Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
User avatar
By matthew_w100
#1875307
If I'm flying to White Waltham from the south-east through the Heathrow zone, how is the handover from Heathrow to WW handled by ATC? Or am I expected to exit the Heathrow zone and approach WW from one of the VRPs outside CAS to the west?
User avatar
By James Chan
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1875318
The standard procedure is in the AIP Flight Procedures 2.22:
1) Aircraft arriving at White Waltham aerodrome are to approach by one of the reporting points November, Sierra or Whiskey shown on the Traffic Zone Chart at AD 2-EGLM-4-1.
2) Aircraft are to arrive overhead the aerodrome at 1200 FT QFE and then carry out a standard overhead join from this height.


I'm only aware of there being some sort of "handover" when EGLM traffic is very light. Otherwise it's pretty tricky to integrate like this (because it's an AG unit) and is why it's better to follow the above.
User avatar
By TheFarmer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1875330
There aren’t any circuits at WW these days.

Most people just fly overhead, pull their chute, call James to bring the Bentley to the members club, and go back to Chelsea where they order another Cirrochute.

:D
skydriller, B1engineer, Human Factor and 3 others liked this
User avatar
By CloudHound
#1875337
If you want a zone entry clearance try Heathrow Special on 125.625 and request Byfleet - Ascot - Burnham with WW as the destination not above 1500' and looking at the TAF Special VFR.
By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1875339
TheFarmer wrote:There aren’t any circuits at WW these days.

Most people just fly overhead, pull their chute, call James to bring the Bentley to the members club, and go back to Chelsea where they order another Cirrochute.

Whatever you're smoking, can I have some, please?
Ben K liked this
User avatar
By TLRippon
#1875346
OK so all the jokes aside:

If you are coming from OCK-Thorpe-Ascot-Waltham. Heathrow radar (Not Special) that went with Class A, will ask you to report visual with Waltham. When you report visual they will ask you to freecall Waltham and retain the squawk until you land. Call Waltham, get runway in use and QFE, announce you are entering from the Heathrow zone climb or descend to 1200’ on the QFE before entering the ATZ join overhead and descend to the 800’ circuit height or if you are pointing at the runway in use descent to 800’ QFE and land straight in giving way to circuit traffic.
johnm, renzokuken, TopCat and 4 others liked this
User avatar
By matthew_w100
#1875364
^^^^Thank you! That's exactly what i want to do.

What about going back? Is there a procedure for getting straight from WW ATZ into the Heathrow zone, without having to float around in the swamp OCAS with all the people wanting Farnborough clearances?
User avatar
By James Chan
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1875375
If you are coming from OCK-Thorpe-Ascot-Waltham. Heathrow radar.... will ask you to report visual with Waltham. When you report visual they will ask you to freecall Waltham and retain the squawk until you land. Call Waltham, get runway in use and QFE,


This is very sensible, and works until you almost can't get a word in edgeways with WW. I've had that before. When OCAS you can orbit outside anywhere and get some breathing space. When in CAS I had to go back to Heathrow and check that's okay. A decade or so ago when it was SVFR-only, it wasn't possible (maybe someone else coming from behind) so I had to exit the zone.
User avatar
By James Chan
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1875379
What about going back? Is there a procedure for getting straight from WW ATZ into the Heathrow zone, without having to float around in the swamp OCAS with all the people wanting Farnborough clearances?


There are two ways that I know with various success rates. I have only done 1).

1) When ATZ traffic is light, is after takeoff call Heathrow whilst remaining inside the Waltham LFA. If a clearance is granted then you're good to go. If ATZ traffic is heavy, you may decide it's safer to exit the zone, turn back on yourself and ask Heathrow over the radio.

2) Before startup, telephone 020 8750 2578 or 02380 401 110 and ask for a VFR clearance window for a WW departure. Someone takes your details. After departure and clear of the circuit, switch frequency and you should be good to proceed.
matthew_w100 liked this
User avatar
By TLRippon
#1875453
My preferred method for departure to the zone is to climb to the overhead at 1200’ QFE and circle around with the joining traffic, there should be no conflict. You are all going the same way, say bye bye to Waltham and call Heathrow radar 125.625. Ask for transit with your route and generally they clear you within seconds. Roll out on the desired heading and off you go.
If Heathrow are busy on the RT I usually just nip around the outside of their zone when going North but wait it out in the overhead if going South rather than deal with all the Farnborough BS.
Iceman, matthew_w100 liked this
User avatar
By MichaelP
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1875466
Interesting.

Is this a consequence of Farnborough’s airspace grab and their reputation for not being nice people to talk to?
User avatar
By matthew_w100
#1875470
Farnborough are very nice people to talk to! Generally friendly and helpful. The problem is all the people who use them to practice their RT, demanding basic services and insisting on listing every turning point of their extended cross-country loops, heavily interspersed with ummms and errrs. I firmly believe Farnborough shouldn't offer a Basic Service - it should be Listening Watch or Traffic Service (or RCS, obvs). RT practice should use local stations, like Blackbushe, Fairoaks and Redhill. Talk to Farnborough only when you need to access their airspace.
East-Bound, RisePilot liked this
User avatar
By Iceman
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1875474
To be fair, crossing Farnborough’s CTR does require that you talk to 133.440 MHz, which is only there specifically for controlled airspace transit. All the students should be on the LARS frequency of 125.250 MHz and not clogging up 133.44.

Iceman 8)