Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
By chevvron
#1871073
Paul_Sengupta wrote:
chevvron wrote:Boscombe always operate non radar at weekends so there will still be traffic about.


Mostly the circuit traffic within the ATZ though.

No; 20nm radius up to FL100 above their ATZ for stalling exercises etc. according to the AIP (MIL) which you can access on www.aip.mod.uk and only on 130.750 not 126.7.
By Boxkite
#1871078
chevvron wrote:
Paul_Sengupta wrote:
chevvron wrote:Boscombe always operate non radar at weekends so there will still be traffic about.


Mostly the circuit traffic within the ATZ though.

No; 20nm radius up to FL100 above their ATZ for stalling exercises etc. according to the AIP (MIL) which you can access on http://www.aip.mod.uk and only on 130.750 not 126.7.

Paul did say "mostly", are you saying "No" to that ?
By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1871082
I take the view that that I can cross a MATZ avoiding the ATZ therefore a request for a transit is a generous offer from me to ATC to become known traffic, the quid pro quo is that they sensibly organise talking to me :D
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#1871085
Boxkite wrote:Paul did say "mostly", are you saying "No" to that ?

Of course not; you can do what you like as it's Class G.
What I'm saying is the activity is not restricted to 'mostly' within the ATZ, it goes a hell of a lot higher and further as do ALL UAS and AEF activities :wall:
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By rdfb
#1871114
The other day I clipped the eastern stub of Middle Wallop MATZ without having spoken to them while I talking to Solent. I wanted to ask Solent for a transit well in advance while heading southbound (and got one). I figured I'd be wearing a Solent squawk (Mode C+S) so if it was an issue they could coordinate. At the time, I didn't want to get "stuck" talking to Boscombe Zone and becoming angsty about the time I'd need to freecall and negotiate with Solent Radar after transiting. In hindsight, I suppose I could have called Boscombe Zone in advance to explain that anyway, and there shouldn't have been any fundamental requirement to stay with Boscombe Zone until outside the MATZ again . But that does still seem like a load of hassle when the controllers can just speak to each other. And speaking only to Solent makes sense to me because that's the part that actually needs to be negotiated, being class D. So I think I might do the same again.

Opinions?
By Ibra
#1871119
chevvron wrote:
Paul_Sengupta wrote:
chevvron wrote:Boscombe always operate non radar at weekends so there will still be traffic about.


Mostly the circuit traffic within the ATZ though.

No; 20nm radius up to FL100 above their ATZ for stalling exercises etc. according to the AIP (MIL) which you can access on http://www.aip.mod.uk and only on 130.750 not 126.7.


That is their “mil controllers radar range” or “Boscombe LARS” no? or it refers to some sort of reserved airspace?
#1871138
rdfb wrote:The other day I clipped the eastern stub of Middle Wallop MATZ without having spoken to them while I talking to Solent. I wanted to ask Solent for a transit well in advance while heading southbound (and got one). I figured I'd be wearing a Solent squawk (Mode C+S) so if it was an issue they could coordinate. At the time, I didn't want to get "stuck" talking to Boscombe Zone and becoming angsty about the time I'd need to freecall and negotiate with Solent Radar after transiting. In hindsight, I suppose I could have called Boscombe Zone in advance to explain that anyway, and there shouldn't have been any fundamental requirement to stay with Boscombe Zone until outside the MATZ again . But that does still seem like a load of hassle when the controllers can just speak to each other. And speaking only to Solent makes sense to me because that's the part that actually needs to be negotiated, being class D. So I think I might do the same again.

Opinions?


Absolutely correct airmanship. Focus on the upcoming transit. Enough people have infringed CAS over the years not getting their priorities right, Boscombe very rarely do radar handovers so the onus is on you.
By Ibra
#1871141
rdfb wrote:The other day I clipped the eastern stub of Middle Wallop MATZ without having spoken to them while I talking to Solent. I wanted to ask Solent for a transit well in advance while heading southbound (and got one). I figured I'd be wearing a Solent squawk (Mode C+S) so if it was an issue they could coordinate. At the time, I didn't want to get "stuck" talking to Boscombe Zone and becoming angsty about the time I'd need to freecall and negotiate with Solent Radar after transiting. In hindsight, I suppose I could have called Boscombe Zone in advance to explain that anyway, and there shouldn't have been any fundamental requirement to stay with Boscombe Zone until outside the MATZ again . But that does still seem like a load of hassle when the controllers can just speak to each other. And speaking only to Solent makes sense to me because that's the part that actually needs to be negotiated, being class D. So I think I might do the same again.

Opinions?


Surely Class D matters more? there is controller separation and weather minima plus you have basic/radar service with squawk, anyone wants to talk to you could get in touch with Solent Radar?

MATZ transit is nice to have (there is no separation, no clearance and it’s uncontrolled Golf anyway) but you are expected to stay out of their ATZ no matter who you talk to in the other end (it’s controlled even in Golf)
#1871155
Ibra wrote:That is their “mil controllers radar range” or “Boscombe LARS” no? or it refers to some sort of reserved airspace?

Merely generic details notified in the AIP (MIL) about non radar traffic (Boscombe LARS do not operate at weekends) which might be encountered near Boscombe at weekends where you might like to keep a lookout if you decide to pass nearby; no question of any reserved airspace.
(Still can't access the civil AIP or am I usng the wrong address?)
Ibra liked this
#1871410
Thanks for all the comments, but to understand this better, suppose I want to fly from Great Oakley to Wallis International. A straight line would take me over Wattisham, Lakenheath/Mildenhall. If I contacted Wattisham on such a flight would they notify Lakenheath/Mildenhall on my behalf?
User avatar
By Rob P
#1871415
I would have said that's very unlikely. Frankly there's little to be gained anyway. Plenty of time between Wattisham and Mildenheath to get rid of the first and contact the second.

Rob P
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User avatar
By James Chan
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1871418
If I contacted Wattisham on such a flight would they notify Lakenheath/Mildenhall on my behalf?


Yes if there is a need to do so. Otherwise don't worry about it.
User avatar
By PeteSpencer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1871420
rusty eagle wrote:Thanks for all the comments, but to understand this better, suppose I want to fly from Great Oakley to Wallis International. A straight line would take me over Wattisham, Lakenheath/Mildenhall. If I contacted Wattisham on such a flight would they notify Lakenheath/Mildenhall on my behalf?



No not unless you ask them to .

Simpler to free-call each in turn .

It’s what I do when returning from the south.

If it’s a weekday the cousins will want you clear of the ATZs anyway unless there are overriding reasons that you can explain to them .

In nearly 30 years I’ve only got through LAK ATZ on a weekday once and that was when they took pity on me when a wall of CBs blocked my route back to our strip and the only gap through was over the ATZ :wink:

Eyeballing your quoted planned direct route on SD you’ll only pass through MLD Westerly stub but take care with your altitude as your route takes you close to two of the IAFs ( at 2000 ft and 3000ft) of Cambridge’s RNP approach into 23 and not far from the 23 ILS ‘feather’ .

When these approaches are in use Cambridge will often co ordinate with MLD via Lakenheath radar if the MLD circuit is busy as the IAFs are inside the Stub . :wink:

A ‘plan B’ to have in yer back pocket might be to do the trip at 4,000ft to take you over the top of both MATZ upper limits (but still call them both up for a ’transit’.)

Your direct route also takes you over the Chatteris para drop zone but you’d spotted that, hadn’t you ? FYI you’ll hear the drop a/c working Lakenheath radar if they’re active.

Good luck
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