[Danny]

I trust your instructor was using some moving map technology but had just denied it to you for purposes of the training?

Indeed he was Matt. SD on his phone.

[Danny]

... However the next leg was planned to cross Birmingham airspace on a West to East track. Called up in good time to be informed that my planned track would be inconvenient, to say the least, to the departures. The superb controller suggested an overhead the field transit which I accepted...

But this hasn't changed, has it? Surely it has always been best to plann (whether on SD or old style) to go overhead in Class D and have an alternative (such as low level under the ILS), knowing that the direct route is often inconvenient for ATC.

I agree Dominie and it makes much sense. I was well aware from the outset though that this flight was there to put me under pressure and see how I deal with the unexpected, planning ad hoc diversions in the air while dealing with ATC and controlled airspace in preparation for the CPL skills test. On reflection it went pretty well but on my own I would use all the tools available and plan alternatives beforehand.

[Ibra]

I heard CPL is bloody tough on VFR navigation !

It's much easier with Michelin road maps, does cheating with car TomTom GPS still for "childrens of magenta" ?

[Genghis the Engineer]

Some of us made a point of never losing those skills ! I passed my PPL(M) that way in 1994, JAR PPL that way 2003, my JAR CPL that way in 2010, and my FAA CPL that way in 2019.

Sometimes I use GPS, sometimes I go old-fashioned, sometimes I do both in parallel.

I'm entirely on board with DR being a bit archaic for primary navigation for most trips or anything particularly critical around unknown airspace in these days of GPS, but it's still a really valuable basic skill we should all hang onto.

Mind you, as proud owner of both an EASA/UK CPL, and an FAA CPL I think that the Americans should stop obsessing about obscure handling techniques, the Europeans should stop obsessing about WW2 style navigation, and both should fill the space with a lot more quality time spent on handling emergencies and modern equipment.

G

[patowalker]

I heard CPL is bloody tough on VFR navigation !

It's much easier with Michelin road maps, ...

Michelin road maps bring back fond memories of flying my ULM from a base near Chartres. If lost over the featureless plain, the solution was to descend until the cathedral showed above the horizon. On a sunny day it was a fantastic sight, with its brilliant white stone rising majestically above the surrounding wheat fields.

[lobstaboy]

Ely cathedral works well for that too, being stuck on a lump in the middle of the fens.

[Paul_Sengupta]

I used the chimney at Aberthaw power station to find my way back to Cardiff. Not quite so glamorous.

I think I'm a bit rusty. I had an SEP renewal test with Irv the other day. I mounted my tablet as normal, but then I completely forgot to look at it for the whole flight!

It does tend to raise the pulse rate a bit when the alarm goes off unexpectedly.

However the shot of adrenaline it gives will keep one awake for at least another minute and a half.

I was in Ely Cathedral on Saturday,

[oldbiggincfi]

IFR

I FOLLOW ROADS

[bilko2]

I got my PPL in 1978 and flew without GPS til early 90s. It's not too bad when you are used to it but one had to accept that one didn't know where one was quite a lot of the time .... you just hoped you knew where you were going to be!

I flew my Robin to Australia and crossed the Atlantic a couple of times and only got seriously lost twice in that decade

[Ibra]

One thing that has changed when doing old nav today is the quality of wind forecast on long legs, you can really get it down to ETA+/-5min, I wonder how accurate this was in the old days?

[Genghis the Engineer]

One thing that has changed when doing old nav today is the quality of wind forecast on long legs, you can really get it down to ETA+/-5min, I wonder how accurate this was in the old days?

We didn't in the "old days" assume the wind forecast was accurate, we used it for an initial heading, then refined it as we established our variation from track.

G

[lobstaboy]

This is how it was done in the old days
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lonely-Sea-Sky ... th=1&psc=1

[malcolmfrost]

All you need to ask is would Guy Gibson have used Skydemon if it was available

[lobstaboy]

All you need to ask is would Guy Gibson have used Skydemon if it was available

Er, no he wouldn't. Do today's military use Skydemon?

[Ibra]

One thing that has changed when doing old nav today is the quality of wind forecast on long legs, you can really get it down to ETA+/-5min, I wonder how accurate this was in the old days?

We didn't in the "old days" assume the wind forecast was accurate, we used it for an initial heading, then refined it as we established our variation from track.

G

I was referring to arrival time which is more headwind component, how accurate this was? or things were relaxed “will be there early afternoon”