Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By leiafee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1869875
Haven’t bought a device yet but had a borrow and play and took one to Sywell the rally weekend.

Has any consensus devloped on best practice for integrating with your lookout?

Are people using the presented info on seperate devices or overlayed on their main nav app?

Where is that physically in eyelines?

What’s your workflow checking it? What sort of scale are you putting it at/acting on?

Have people got the audio rigged up and connected thus that it’s, well, audible?

It was the first time I’d used any sort of traffic info, and had it overlayed on map on my phone. That was mounted atop the coaming. Nav app on my lap on full sized ipad. No audio. Track up on the traffic map, north up on the nav map.

I was scanning the traffic info as part of a workflow that included clearing the area obstructed by a piece of aircraft structure that comes up the centre of the windscreen. The mounting position just happened to be about there anyway.

Or I looked when it flashed at me because it thought something was close. That was attention getting in peripheral vision even if looking elsewhere.

I got eyes onto less than half of what it drew my attention to but on two occasions changed course or height in reponse anyway. One tracking head on reporting 500 below (I turned aside), and one similar level converging from behind me and catching up (I climbed).

Both about fifteen miles out from Sywell and probably coming or going from same. Neither passed super close according tot he device, and maybe they had seen me and would have been no threat anyway but it was interesting to see how much I’m not seeing.

And there were other things I saw with eyes that weren’t showing on EC too of course.

It became apparent that the scale I wanted the map at for traffic awareness was not the same as I wanted the scale at for nav - how are people squaring that when using an overlayed method?

I also didn’t experiment with the option to have the traffic on the “radar” style display rather than on the map which I think might have given me a better feel for how far out I was looking.

Anyway it was interesting and would welcome comments on workflow and setup from people using it for longer.
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By Dave W
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1869876
Use audio (ideally voice) to cue you to a threat; then glance at the screen if necessary to confirm any necessary manouvre.

Scanning the tablet is, IMO, a flawed strategy - especially since there are still many (possibly most) aircraft out there you won't detect accurately, or at all, via EC.

EC is not a panacea, and it is potentially hazardous to treat it as such.

Again: IMO.
Miscellaneous, T67M, pplmeir and 5 others liked this
By Lefty
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1869881
I agree with @Dave W

Use audio alerts played directly into your headset.
Only look at your tablet / display if the audio alerts you to a threat.
The ideal display is a radar type display that shows bearing and range of the target from your aircraft. It should be mounted in your eyeline - eg on the coaming where it is easily visible whilst you are scanning OUTSIDE.
Displaying traffic as an overlay on your moving map is not a good idea as it is difficult to identify which targets are threats. This is why using a software system that calculates threats and only alerts you to threats is very important.

Lastly, remember that no EC system will show you all the traffic. So you must use eyes out - and use your EC device to tell you where to focus your visual scan.
Last edited by Lefty on Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
gaznav liked this
#1869882
Traffic and Nav Apps on Tablets do not mix well!
Neither does audio in a very busy circuit....far too distracting!
A dedicated traffic display as high on the panel as you can get it, so high that you can almost incorporate in your scan works much, much better.
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By Dave W
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1869898
Another IMO set of thoughts:

Joining and in the circuit: Lookout, listen (for Situational Awareness), accurately announce own position and scrupulously follow the standard or published circuit & joins. EC very much secondary (or even off).

Outside the circuit: Lookout, effectively integrated* EC, ATS as available & appropriate.




*That is, audio you can clearly hear, set to a suitable volume; alert display you can check at a glance (within easy field of view).

The threats and probabilities are differently presented, I reckon, close to vs away from the airfield.

That's how I see it, anyway.
#1869903
I think many people slightly misuse the concepts and capabilities they are using. IMHO, from the present EC capabilities you have two things to think about / deal with:

Tactical collision avoidance - these capabilities are TAS not TCAS, so we are talking about close in threats that need some kind of action to avoid a collision. This is the good stuff about audio, ‘radar screen presentations’ and so on above - but what are your reactions when you get an alert? Up/down left/right stay on track?

Situational Air Picture - you get an expanded view of other traffic and stuff going on. This is just as important IMHO as you can appreciate hotspots and other conflicts in advance allowing you to sequence, move areas, change plan, reroute etc.. As an FI/FE a lot of my EC usage is like this to position for general handling, stalling etc..
Paul_Sengupta, gaznav liked this
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By Dave W
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1869904
The difficulty I find with EC audio alerts in the circuit is that the margins I want in cross-country flight (distance, relative height) are too small in the circuit and so the warnings are going off all the time.

I find the MOST useful information in the circuit is the combination of other calls and the mental capacity to build up a picture of where everybody says they are, and my analysis of where they (and I) will soon be. (Hence why scrupulously accurate calls are so key - another discussion!)

Mostly irrelevant EC alerts are, in those circimstances, generally more of a distraction than an aid to me.
Shoestring Flyer liked this
#1869907
Rob P wrote:Audio all the way

PAw > SD Tablet > Bluetooth to headset

Absolutely, IMO those operating EC without audio are either lacking in their understanding of EC, or/and deceiving themselves in thinking EC without audio is anything other than providing a feel good factor by ticking the EC box.
T67M liked this
#1869948
Audio is fine when in the cruise or in the wilds of Scotland or East Angular where you probably only come across conflicting traffic once every third Sunday. When in very busy traffic locations or in the circuit however it is far too distracting with the constant flow of traffic warnings in your ear.
Personally I find audio is just not practical to use without constant volume twiddling.
By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1869954
I'm coming to the conclusion that audio warnings are a mixed blessing.

There may be a case for a separate screen for traffic warnings but even there I'm in two minds.

At the moment I'm still trying to find the optimum location for a SE2 in our aircraft and as things stand I'd guess that about 20% of traffic is displayed and about 90% of that is irrelevant. The one really close encounter I've experienced (not an airprox) flashed up a warning and was captured visually.

My scan includes both moving maps and Skydemon will display an alarm for traffic it sees similar to airspace and I think that is the way forward for now.
#1869962
Shoestring Flyer wrote: When in very busy traffic locations or in the circuit however it is far too distracting with the constant flow of traffic warnings in your ear. Personally I find audio is just not practical to use without constant volume twiddling.


Whilst I certainly wouldn't want permanent audio if I were doing a one hour circuit session, I would have thought a busy area with lots of traffic would be precisely where you do want it most. Particularly with SD screening out the irrelevant ones?

Extended rejoin checks BUMMPFICHE once per flight hardly seems arduous

Rob P
By riverrock
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1870058
We have PAW piped into our intercom, with a volume control so you can turn it off in the circuit.
PAW gives information on traffic, but not any sort of collision avoidance, and so doesn't filter out not-relevant traffic based on track. A quick glance at a tablet can help check if track is likely an issue.
#1870064
In cruise, audio warning that some traffic is around and his level are two important stuff I am after, the rest I keep flying like I do on gliders, hitting someone while looking for him on my tablet

In the circuit, I just ignore all of it, all I care is how much count I have in my tablet or radio before joining and I aim to visually spot up to twice of that count, then everything goes off, the risk of losing control in the circuit while getting distracted by EC/RT is still more dramatic than the risk of hitting someone…