[Sir Morley Steven]

Just published. Well done to all those who pushed to get this through.
It’s just a shame it’s only available to commercial traffic.

[johnm]

The restrictions highlight the impact of lack of joined up ATC and the fact that pilots are not trusted to self sequence.

[malcolmfrost]

Of course if we had a joined up ATC system which delegated all approach services to NATS who then handed aircraft over to local ATC, AFIS or AGCS at 2000 feet AGL it wouldn't be a problem!

[Ibra]

Funnily enough in UK we are trusted to legal fly 1.5km vis & 600ft agl across the entire country with no exception (other than between Canary Wharf & Vauxhall Bridge in single engines), trusted to self-separate while flying IMC OCAS in cruise not getting any service, trusted to legally depart & land in zero/zero conditions from backyards…in other words you are trusted to do whatever you wish as long as you remain outside controlled airspace, you can hit anything you wish: clouds, traffic, terrain…but please give controlled airspace a miss

However, if one asks to get PPR or clearance to fly IAF on a new published RNP with 510ft OCH then everybody goes mad and starts scratching their heads about lack of procedural separation & radar separation and how suddenly people will start hitting each other or fall out of the sky in Golf

[Iceman]

It’s no better at Lands End which has full ATC and RNP approaches; still only available to a select few allowed by the aerodrome operator - bloody ridiculous !

I recall recovering to Vagar in the Faeroe Islands after the 2016 eclipse. There were about 17 aircraft wishing to land (the weather was almost down to ILS minima). The FISO just stated over the radio ‘talk to each other and self-sequence’. It worked a treat with the Kingair in front of me calling no joy on the approach before coming back to the hold and telling me to have a go next. I got in ok followed by the Kingair on his second approach. Everything from Cirrus to 737-sized aircraft was in the mix.

It’s not even as though the traffic density in genuine IMC conditions outside controlled airspace in the UK is particularly high.

Iceman

[Ibra]

I recall recovering to Vagar in the Faeroe Islands after the 2016 eclipse. There were about 17 aircraft wishing to land (the weather was almost down to ILS minima). The FISO just stated over the radio ‘talk to each other and self-sequence’. It worked a treat with the Kingair in front of me calling no joy on the approach before coming back to the hold and telling me to have a go next. I got in ok followed by the Kingair on his second approach. Everything from Cirrus to 737-sized aircraft was in the mix.

There is one airport there, he just assumed everybody know each other from the Eclipse night party

How does it work on handover from en-route ATC to airport AFIS? I see there is no terminal ATC frequency on the plates, so no approach sequencing and it’s really AFIS who deals with it

Still something is better than nothing

Now that we are out of EGNOS & EASA, I think we should send our Gatwick guys to New Zealand to learn a bit, NZ CAA copied UK ANO and airspace “as is” but then went really far when it come to GPS approaches in uncontrolled airfields with limited “en-route ATC interest”:
- They also allow uncontrolled IFR for aircraft & gliders without talking to anyone OCAS
- They implemented RNP without LPV (they are away from SBAS anyway)
- They also have BMZ like ATZ, broadcasting mandatory zones
- They have SafetyCom 119.4 is used for IAP IFR OCAS

They don’t have to make it “GPS heavens” like USA & France with billion budgets for ATC/RNP, just copy & past what New Zealand did…

https://www.aip.net.nz/assets/AIP/Aerod ... 1_45.2.pdf

[CloudHound]

Skydemon quick off the mark with Feathered Arrows denoting an instrument approach.

[PeteSpencer]

Shame virtually nobody can make use of it .
How much CAT is there at Kemble?

Peter

[johnm]

How much CAT is there at Kemble?

Peter

Quite a lot of heavy stuff going into ASI or storage and a number of bizjets

[Genghis the Engineer]

Skydemon quick off the mark with Feathered Arrows denoting an instrument approach.

The plates are also up on Airplan, my preferred provider.

I just need to persuade them that my occasional business trip in in the PA28 is "Commercial" now.

G

[NDB_hold]

When the CAA announced they would allow GPS approaches into FISO airfields I knew they would find a way to stuff it up.

[PeteSpencer]

When the CAA announced they would allow GPS approaches into FISO airfields I knew they would find a way to stuff it up.

Yep, The plates are also on Airbox (formerly GCap) which I use for all my UK/near Europe IFR stuff.

Oh- but did I mention they're sod all use to me, a lowly PPL/IR/SE?
No? I thought I did...............

C'mon Mr Shapps: Time to use your influence and regularise the dire situation re provision of RNP approaches in UK- and their immediate availability to IR rated PPLs......

[Bathman]

And I bet every RNP approach in New Zealand doesn't cost 400K to get approved either.

[Trent772]

But who knows if you fly it or not

If you ask to join long final for example, I am sure all the moons and stars will align in time. If an aeroplane avionics system can generate a pseudo arrival to an aerodrome with no approaches based on it's own abilities to draw a 3° glideslope from a runway, surely flying a published LPV approach is far safer ?

The aerodrome is not maintaining any equipment, it has no control over the mechanics of the procedure, that is within your control in the aeroplane.

So I presume that this is a legislative diktat that says 'they' won't let you do it

[Ibra]

LPV proposal for Kemble had 500ft OCH vs LNAV with 509ft, there is no LPV that did come out of Gatwick that has anything bellow the 500ft OCH blanket floor for “GA VFR airfields” and some are well clear of obstacles as far as my sharp eye can see, if you want an LPV200 you may want to try Jersey…

Not UK specific, LPV minima in France in uncontrolled airports mixing VFR & IFR are floored at 400ft-500ft OCH as well, but there is no silly GA/CAT restriction on their usage