[A le Ron]

I take both my wife up alone and my kids up alone and my wife and kids together on family flying holidays all over the place. I can’t understand why not. I also take my 11 year old on my motorbike and we are all still alive.

We used to have a boat, now that was dangerous.

I adopt the same strategy, but I’m happier in a twin.

[TLRippon]

If we all lived our lives in fear of anything that could hurt us we would achieve nothing and amount to nothing.

I’d rather my family lived fulfilled lives than were in fear of being alive.

[TopCat]

If we all lived our lives in fear of anything that could hurt us we would achieve nothing and amount to nothing.

I’d rather my family lived fulfilled lives than were in fear of being alive.

This is trivially true, and I completely agree, as I suspect, also does the OP.

It also contributes nothing to the debate, as what constitute meaning and fulfilment are different to different people.

How much risk is acceptable in pursuit of such meaning is also a spectrum, and taking a position at a different place on that spectrum from you doesn't mean that one is in fear of being alive in one direction, nor gaining more fulfilment than you in the other direction.

Just as an example, I take meaning and fulfilment from being the best pilot I can be, which means, in the context of risk taking, that my survival in the case of an engine failure is solely down to my skill and execution of a forced landing, not in having good luck. Therefore I only fly where it's not down to luck.

Those that are happy to fly long distances over water in a single, or at night, may gain meaning from their experiences doing such things, and that's fine. I don't criticise them. But they're essentially gambling on the quality of their engine maintenance, not on their own abilities. Can you put your hand on your heart and be confident of getting a family of four including two small kids out of a sinking, inverted, PA28 and into a life raft in a rough sea? No? Then you're gambling if you fly those missions, let's be clear.

I'm not saying don't take the gamble - people are different and it probably won't happen.

I don't demean others who fly at night, or to the Channel Islands from Southampton, or with the OH while the kids are at school, but I don't like it when there's an implication that those who don't do those things are somehow unfulfilled or living in fear.

[T6Harvard]

It is a very good question and we've had lots of very interesting and thought-provoking replies.

I'm a student. I had one lesson in a C172 and MrT6 sat in the back. He said he felt OK until we flew over water, which I thought was the best bit! He subsequently said he does not like light aircraft, he will not fly in one again no matter who is piloting, and tbh I am pretty sure he worries every time I have a lesson.
I am very fortunate that he would never ask me to not take lessons* but I think if we had kids he would.

*In a similar way that I never asked him to stop attending football matches because he loved it so much, but there were risks to being an away fan at a Chelsea match (other football teams' hooligans are available).

[Bill McCarthy]

This reminds me of times at sea. Depth of water below the boat sometimes could be measured in miles. Escape equipment is one of the most rigourously maintained on board, but totally useless beyond the continental shelf. At our max depth the pressure outside was 800 psi and blowing main ballast ain’t going to help in any way. Dwelling on the consequences of failure only came to the fore when it became a fine line between going up, or going down. I’ve been involved in three distinct occasions when it very nearly ended badly. And yet, carry on regardless - looking forward to the next foreign port !

[Miscellaneous]

@Bill McCarthy have a word with @JAFO, you must have more than enough for a book, or two.

[Rob P]

He subsequently said he does not like light aircraft, he will not fly in one again no matter who is piloting

It will be a shame if you can't share your new-found hobby/obsession. There are a few on here whose partner will not fly with them.

Mrs P is no lover of GA, but does love France. The simple, forty minute trips, mostly bump-free as we are over water are enough to tempt her, as was the wonderful fly-in gite back in 2020.

There is hope for you yet.

Rob P

[PeteSpencer]

I'm a student. I had one lesson in a C172 and MrT6 sat in the back. He said he felt OK until we flew over water, which I thought was the best bit! He subsequently said he does not like light aircraft, he will not fly in one again no matter who is piloting, and tbh I am pretty sure he worries every time I have a lesson.
.

That's a great shame: After buying me a trial lesson nearly 30 years ago with a promise she'd let me take her to lunch in Le Touquet once I got my licence, Mrs S went back on her word and has never flown with me.

I won't bore you with the reason.

It saddens me to think of all the aviation stuff/adventures we've missed together, tho' slightly tempered by the fact that my kids and now my grandson will fly with me....

[Dominie]

I definitely stick to the mantra of 'If there is any doubt, there is no doubt'

I'm not so sure I would follow that mantra if it is me doing the piloting, but that is certainly the principle I used when in the RAF and as an engineer officer had to sign off an aircraft as fit to fly.

The follow-on is that if you worry about it on the way home or later then you definitely shouldn't have signed it! Or another version: how would I justify this at a Board of Inquiry?

[David Wood]

I definitely stick to the mantra of 'If there is any doubt, there is no doubt'

I'm not so sure I would follow that mantra if it is me doing the piloting, but that is certainly the principle I used when in the RAF and as an engineer officer had to sign off an aircraft as fit to fly.

The follow-on is that if you worry about it on the way home or later then you definitely shouldn't have signed it! Or another version: how would I justify this at a Board of Inquiry?

I’d agree. If you think that there’s no doubt then you’re probably not thinking critically enough about the flight. Not enough TEM, as they'd say today….

The 'how would this read on an AAIB report?' is a powerful test, however.

[Milty]

Thank you all for the answers re potential fuel issues.

[tomarnold]

We flew up to Fjällbacka yesterday, a BEAUTIFUL flight up the coast just north of Gothenburg. The weather was utterly amazing - very stable, smooth air throughout the weekend, with almost nil wind both days. We were very very lucky to have such incredibly perfect conditions. We stayed the night there last night (celebrating our 19th wedding anniversary) and flew back after breakfast this morning to go and collect our children who were staying with friends.

Thank you to all of you who have contributed to this discussion; your views helped me a lot over the last few days.

Happy flying!

[Rob L]

Any photos? Please?

[T6Harvard]

That sounds perfect @tomarnold .

[JonathanB]

One of the best threads I’ve read lately. Thanks folks!

I’ve not flown for 4 years now - I only flew the once soon after my eldest was born. Mainly I think it’s the time it takes away from family and feeling guilty about that, but then again every accident report seems like another nail in the coffin for going back to it.