Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
  • 1
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
  • 9
  • 12
#1867021
Cessna571 wrote:
Miscellaneous wrote:
Cessna571 wrote:This is because I’ll be in the plane, and if I thought there was a proper risk of dying, first and foremost I’d not be in the thing, forget any passengers!

For me the glaring error in this thinking is that 99.9% of those who have died had that same belief.


It’s more about WHY I believe that, than just believing it.

I believe that because I’m a very careful pilot and risk adverse.

Here’s an actual true story..

I once turned up to fly our aircraft with another group member who checked the oil and fuel, and jumped in.

I said “preflight?” and he said “nah, it was flown twice yesterday, I’m sure it was checked then”.

So I did a preflight.

He doesn’t think he’ll die in an aircraft, but it’s just blind faith.

My belief is based on me doing everything I can to prevent it.

I mean “If I still thought there was a proper risk of dying after the steps I’d taken to minimise it, I’d not be in the plane”


Did my IR(R) revalidation yesterday with a very sensible examiner. Even though he knew I’d flown the aircraft twice that day already, I still found him having a quick walkaround before the flight. Totally within his rights, and probably sensible before flying with someone he’d never flown with before.
User avatar
By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1867025
Cessna571 wrote:We only ever say “don’t have pressonitis, don’t have gethomeitis”

That doesn’t work obviously, so there’s no point in me saying that, if I should be saying something else.


Well, it works for the tens of thousands of pilots who don't have a CFIT or weather induced LOC.
#1867077
Cessna571 wrote:I’m sure bloggs didn’t think “I’ll fly into a mountain today”, so what did bloggs do wrong, and how can I not do it.

I'm sure we are essentially on the same hymn sheet, the difference seems to be that you don't think you can make the 'silly' mistakes bloggs makes, I, on the other hand, think if it can happen to bloggs, it can happen to me. :wink:
Flyin'Dutch' liked this
User avatar
By Flyin'Dutch'
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1867084
It not just, it likely will (that is making mistakes)

After every flight where I after pushing the aeroplane back in the hangar think: 'I make no mistakes' I know that what really happened is: 'I didn't notice any mistake'

Most mistakes don't kill us most of the time; the art of surviving is recognising when the holes start to line up and breaking the chain of events.

Sticking to (your own) SOPs helps.

SOPs, whether they are for CAT or yourself, should be clear set of rules, thought out on from the comfort of your desk, preferably from lessons learned.
StratoTramp, Nick, T6Harvard liked this
User avatar
By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1867086
Miscellaneous wrote:I'm sure we are essentially on the same hymn sheet, the difference seems to be that you don't think you can make the 'silly' mistakes bloggs makes, I, on the other hand, think if it can happen to bloggs, it can happen to me. :wink:


Mind you, you fly around a load of mountains. Where Cessna571 flies, not even the rivers flow it's so flat...
User avatar
By StratoTramp
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1867091
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:Sticking to (your own) SOPs helps.

SOPs, whether they are for CAT or yourself, should be clear set of rules, thought out on from the comfort of your desk, preferably from lessons learned.


I have virtually no flying experience yet in the scheme of things but after every lesson I do a quick "what went well? what could be improved? what will I do differently next time?"

Once so far "what will I do differently?" has included... "Remove the pitot cover on the walk round rather than just noticing it when moving round the box" :roll: if I didn't notice that's two holes in the cheese aligned.

Usually it's more subtle things I am happy to report. Though, I make a habit of re-reading the whole thing before each flight.

Easy for 20 hours :lol: admittedly. For you guys with your 100s/1000s of hours this might get a bit tedious :lol: so you'd have to select or maybe just limit to last flight or common mistakes or something!
#1867093
Paul_Sengupta wrote:
Miscellaneous wrote:I'm sure we are essentially on the same hymn sheet, the difference seems to be that you don't think you can make the 'silly' mistakes bloggs makes, I, on the other hand, think if it can happen to bloggs, it can happen to me. :wink:


Mind you, you fly around a load of mountains. Where Cessna571 flies, not even the rivers flow it's so flat...


It may be a tongue in cheek post, Paul, however that's the gist of it. We each 'rationalise' our actions to suit. :thumright:
#1867094
SOPs, whether they are for CAT or yourself, should be clear set of rules, thought out on from the comfort of your desk, preferably from lessons learned.


Others have suggested actually writing down your own SOPs/limitations, and giving a copy to at least one of your flying friends.

That way, if you’re ever tempted to push your own limits (written in the cold light of day) then you will always have in the back of your mind, that if the worst happens, one of your mates will know you were doing something you said you wouldn’t.

I think it might help. How can it harm?
Flyin'Dutch', T6Harvard liked this
#1867105
TheArb wrote:I make 4 observations:

1. Humans generally become more risk averse as they get older.
2. Everybody thinks they are an above average driver/ pilot so they think it is less likely to happen to them. I read every accident report and observe that pilots who are far better qualified than me and more experienced than me have got into trouble, often fatally.
3. It's not the known known that is likely to do for you, it's the known unknown and the unknown unknown, these are out of your control.
4. I am curious that one poster stated they didn't want to leave their kids orphans so as a solution they didn't fly with their partner unless the kids were with them. That's not been thought through either, you don't get to choose who gets killed in a fatal air accident as the following sad case proves:


1. I've actually become far less risk averse since I died. I spent a little while dead a few years ago and was pummelled back to life by my wife. Since then I have been rather more determined to think about living than dying.

2. I don't, I happen to think that I am at best average and perhaps below that in both activities and I am abysmal at parking both. That's why I think it's less likely to happen to me, because I'm concentrating and keeping a bloody good eye on myself to make sure I don't **** up.

I think @TopCat has handled the third point and I agree with him on them.
Last edited by JAFO on Wed Aug 25, 2021 8:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
T6Harvard, Flyin'Dutch' liked this
#1867107
Paul_Sengupta wrote:
Miscellaneous wrote:I'm sure we are essentially on the same hymn sheet, the difference seems to be that you don't think you can make the 'silly' mistakes bloggs makes, I, on the other hand, think if it can happen to bloggs, it can happen to me. :wink:


Mind you, you fly around a load of mountains. Where Cessna571 flies, not even the rivers flow it's so flat...


That's very true, he flies from an airfield 40 miles from the one I fly from but if I stand on a chair I can wave to him.
Paul_Sengupta liked this
#1867123
Miscellaneous wrote:
Cessna571 wrote:I’m sure bloggs didn’t think “I’ll fly into a mountain today”, so what did bloggs do wrong, and how can I not do it.

I'm sure we are essentially on the same hymn sheet, the difference seems to be that you don't think you can make the 'silly' mistakes bloggs makes, I, on the other hand, think if it can happen to bloggs, it can happen to me. :wink:


Woah!

I never said I don’t make mistakes and I won’t make the mistakes bloggs makes.

I said I want to know what mistakes bloggs actually makes, so that I can try not to make them.

How DID bloggs end up in the middle of a cloud?

If I can find they out, I’ll try and make sure I don’t do what bloggs did.

That’s all.
JAFO liked this
User avatar
By VRB_20kt
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1867141
For CFIT Bloggs’ recurring theme seems to be flying home into a lowering cloudbase and not quite making it back. I can think of quite a few airfield that are in apparently flat locations but that have three or four hundred feet of hills not far away. An easy gotcha.

TBH it’s such a common scenario I really don’t know whether any of us can say “I wouldn’t do that”.
User avatar
By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1867145
VRB_20kt wrote:TBH it’s such a common scenario I really don’t know whether any of us can say “I wouldn’t do that”.


What if you only fly on CAVOK days when the temperature and dewpoint are far apart?

(ok, there's an issue with degrading skills and confidence but let's disregard that for the time being)
  • 1
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
  • 9
  • 12