Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
#1861980
@patowalker
That'll be a laugh. Differences training to fly the same aircraft. :D


Bit daft isn't it. Same as at the moment with the Eurofox. On my UK PPL I can jump in an LAA Eurofox and fly it straight away. If I climb out of that aircraft and into a factory-built Eurofox (that is called a microlight) I need differences training :roll:
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#1861981
PaulSS wrote:..
No, this was when it 5 hours in 13 months (or whatever it used to be). .... 'experience stamp' in my logbook.. Wasn't it just A for singles and B for multi, ..


Yes, 'experience' Examiner's signature and stamp. Examiner had to examine logbook and be 'satisfied' about 5h P1 or P2 ('copilot'; ie, formal copilot role in type requiring one, presumably). 'Group C' for >12,500lb (single or multi).
By patowalker
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1861985
Miscellaneous wrote:
patowalker wrote:I do have a microlight licence, and it is ICAO compliant, apparently. :D

I wasn't questioning your own situation, simply considering the ridiculousness of the scenario I described. :D


I just wanted to highlight the ridiculousness of a microlight licence "Issued in accordance with ICAO standards".
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#1861986
patowalker wrote:That'll be a laugh. Differences training to fly the same aircraft. :D

Thinking this through, the truth is there is a requirement to have differences training to 'fly' the new paperwork. :?

I just wanted to highlight the ridiculousness of a microlight licence "Issued in accordance with ICAO standards".

Gotcha. :thumright:
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By foxmoth
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1862009
PaulSS wrote:@patowalker
That'll be a laugh. Differences training to fly the same aircraft. :D


Bit daft isn't it. Same as at the moment with the Eurofox. On my UK PPL I can jump in an LAA Eurofox and fly it straight away. If I climb out of that aircraft and into a factory-built Eurofox (that is called a microlight) I need differences training :roll:


I have just done exactly that - flew a n LAA Eurofox as an instructor then another pilot I did some training with bought a microlight Eurofox and wants me to do his training so I had to get the “differences” sign off! :roll:
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#1862012
lobstaboy wrote:
Dman wrote:What I can`t understand is, if a current microlight has a ballistic chute installed, the weight automatically goes up to 472.5kg
so why cant a microlight that has no chute be rated to 472.5kg?
Would make quite a difference for someone my size, not particularly overweight, but 6`4" tall


It's a dispensation to allow safety equipment to be fitted so that there is no weight penalty and hence barrier to fitting it.
Strictly speaking the weight limit is still 450 kgs, to which may be added a ballistic chute of up to 22.5 kgs.
So really you are not supposed to be able to say, "My microlight has a ballistic chute fitted that only weighs 12.5 kgs, so I can put an extra 10 kgs of load in it." But everybody does, naturally.
This point was mentioned in the BMAA FAQs that was linked to earlier - basically it's not just MTOM, it's balance too and the chute has to be approved such that it doesn't mess up W&B.

I can see where your coming from, but whats the difference between me at 105kg flying with say 25lts of fuel, and my mate who is probably 50ks wet through flying with 60lts of fuel, it all alters W & B
#1862016
Dman wrote:I can see where your coming from, but whats the difference between me at 105kg flying with say 25lts of fuel, and my mate who is probably 50ks wet through flying with 60lts of fuel, it all alters W & B

You and 25ltrs is about 30kg heavier, in a EF there will be little effect on balance. :thumright:
#1862018
My understanding, from various bits in LAA and BMAA mags at the time this all kicked off, was that the bonkers gold-plate of an SSEA holder needing a whole different rating to fly a Microlight was going to be dispensed with as part of this weight increase, and it was going to move to differences training only, or nothing, depending on previous experience. But that side of it then got sucked into the CAA's more wide-ranging review of licencing and has disappeared into the mud, so at present we're sadly still lumbered with it.

I also believe that when the Microlight training syllabus was revised a couple of years ago, it was revised with these heavier aircraft very much in mind.
#1862019
townleyc wrote:Are microlight pilots not taught/expected to do a W&B calculation?

KE


No they aren't - for a very good reason - but one that I don't agree with.

In microlight world (well in the UK anyway) part of the airworthiness requirement for the design to be approved is that it must remain within the balance limits however it is loaded with passengers and fuel as long as the overall maximum and minimum weights are not exceeded, and the individual seat weight limits are adhered to.
Thus there is no need to do a W&B calculation. So it isn't taught. But...

One of the real dangers of going off piste with weight in a microlight because the design is approved for a different weight in another country, or because it's allowed to have a chute, is that the balance may be messed up. Hence my comment above about chutes. It is a real problem potentially, because pie eating microlight pilots who don't appreciate balance can get into trouble.
#1862049
W&B is indeed on the syllabus ("where applicable"), but it's possible to pass the Aerotech exam without doing a mass/balance calculation. Some flight examiners may ask about weight limitations during GST or the ground oral, but with a lot of 3-axis microlights having the pilot & passenger on or very near the CG crew weight has little influence on balance. Fuel tanks are generally aft of the CG and can have some, but not great, influence.

Flexwings are, I'm told, not sensitive to balance issues.

Fortunately, microlight designs which meet the design criteria of BCAR-S seem to come out quite tolerant to W&B abuse: I have seen the occasional crew climb out of a microlight who must have been wearing inflated santa suits if they genuinely met the placarded maximum crew weight.

The weight of the average Brit bloke nowadays is somewhat higher (and not solely due to beer 'n' pie consumption) than it was when the microlighting world was populated by post-war lean guys and BCAR-S was originally written. I'm led to understand that the new microlight airworthiness design criteria are likely to make it less tempting to pretend to be lighter than the weighing scales indicate.