Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
User avatar
By shortwing
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1861086
ls8pilot wrote:
shortwing wrote:@leemoore1966

Where can I see a map showing the stations in a user friendly format like the screenshots above?

Try
https://aircrew.co.uk/playback/groundstations/



Thank you. Kent is really poorly served, considering in a normal year during the summer its a hive of traffic to L2k that surprises me.

Sadly I can't fit one where I live
#1861123
One recent change to ATOM stations is that they now are monitored and if down for any significant time an email is automatically sent to the station owner.

I had one from PWEnstone at 8AM on Sunday to say it had been down for 221 Minutes. By the time I saw the email, an hour later, it was back up. Most likely the generator had failed to start after the batteries had run down. Enstone is one of the early stations that predates CAP1392 and SE2, hence needs the antenna upgrading. It was built on the recommendations at the time.

PWThame is my other station and has always had poor performance. It was only intended as a test station and the antennas are just bits of wire stuck on a window. I could turn it off, but then it would be counted as 'Down'. As it is likely I will move house in the next year or two, I have no wish to install a new big rig, but would consider some sort of upgrade.

I have mentioned upgrades twice now, these would have to be done at my own expense. Those of you that feel that these two stations are under performing, feel free to chip in with the costs. :wink:
johnm, ls8pilot, Rob P and 1 others liked this
User avatar
By Rob P
#1861132
gaznav wrote:@Rob P

I’ve just decided to rise above the personal snipes, mate. It’s all a bit churlish and pathetic :thumright:


You just don't get it, do you?

Rob P
johnm, T67M liked this
#1861142
Rob P wrote:
gaznav wrote:@Rob P

I’ve just decided to rise above the personal snipes, mate. It’s all a bit churlish and pathetic :thumright:


You just don't get it, do you?

Rob P


To be fair to gaznav, I doubt he was one of the people asking for an update on the ground stations.

He never posts about EC, only ever in reply to PAW claims.

So PAW claimed they now have 220 stations, and gaznav pointed out that the last time he checked one of their claims it wasn’t “quite right”.

All he ever does these days is ask for clarification of the marketing claims.

I’m pretty sure if SE2 started posting threads on here making claims and thanking each other for them, then people would call them out on it.

(I don’t think I ever saw a thread started by the SE2 chaps, thanking each other!)

Anyway,..

while I’m here, a massive thank you to Tim Dawson and all at SkyDemon, I turned on my phone this morning and SkyDemon made me a cup of tea.
If you refute that, suspect it’s not quite true, YOU’RE the problem.

Anyway…

I actually want EC in every aircraft, and I don’t care which, I just want to be safe.

I wish Grant Shapps would just get on with it and mandate PAW, which is where I think it’ll end up, then we can stop having all these conversations, we’d all be safe, I expect covid and Brexit have slowed it down slightly.

It doesn’t really matter which he chose, it matters that it’s mandated. It’s 2021, any of your new passengers agog that we still use big sky theory?
Cub, kanga, gaznav liked this
User avatar
By Rob P
#1861147
Cessna571 wrote:He never posts about EC, only ever in reply to PAW claims.


Endlessly and inevitably.

We are all pretty much sophisticated consumers. We are used to marketing puff and we are used to making up our own minds.

The decision between SE2 and PAw won't be made on the number of ground stations, it will be made on the ownership/grouped/rented nature of the aircraft and its ability or inability to push out 'proper' ADSB from the transponder, or to afford more sophisticated (expensive) systems.

Nobody is attacking him personally, despite what he feels, regardless of his repeatedly ignoring Ian's request to eschew axe grinding.

Rob P
By Forfoxake
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1861150
ls8pilot wrote:
Rob P wrote:
ls8pilot wrote:
Please don't start this again guys ..... I think we've all had enough :thumleft:


@gaznav How can you possibly 'like' this post ^^^^ and then come back posting more, mind-numbing repetition of the same, tired old stuff?

You do know he was talking to you too, don't you?

Rob P


My criticism is for the endless "tit for tat" of "my EC is better than yours". Factual debate along the lines of "this system works like this" is useful so we understand the limitations of each EC system, and to keep people looking out the window - which IMHO remains the primary barrier to MAC.

My own view is there is absolutely no need to denigrate any of the EC systems, if you think "yours" is better that's fine, but everyone is entitled to their own view & make their own choices .


Agreed. That is why I have all three main EC devices- PowerFLARM, PAW and SE2- on my Kitfox- or four if you count the Mode A/C transponder!

Of course, it would be nice if everyone had the same system (or there was full cross compatibility) but imho it ain't gonna happen anytime soon!
ls8pilot, gaznav liked this
By Cessna571
#1861157
Rob P wrote:
Cessna571 wrote:He never posts about EC, only ever in reply to PAW claims.


We are used to marketing puff and we are used to making up our own minds.

The decision between SE2 and PAw won't be made on the number of ground stations, it will be made on the ownership/grouped/rented nature of the aircraft and its ability or inability to push out 'proper' ADSB from the transponder, or to afford more sophisticated (expensive) systems.

Rob P


I don’t think that’s true though.

Genuinely I met a pilot recently who used to be in our group and had left to buy his own aircraft.

He was showing me his new steed, and he had a new PAW wired in with external antenna etc.

(Interestingly, it was on the panel, not hidden, he said the avionics chap who wired it in for him said that if he couldn’t rip it off and throw it out the door, it wasn’t “carry on” and he’d not sign it off unless he could do that!)

He said he’d made his decision because the whole country was covered by ground stations now.

When I asked him if he had ADSB out, he said he wasn’t bothering, he could see every other aircraft anyway, he could avoid them.

This isn’t a daft chap, this is a chap who used to work on Military radar systems.

I don’t think the 220 ground stations was “marketing puff”, I think it was a claim,

We basically all know PAW is pretty excellent at what it does, and Lee keeps adding extra bits and enhancements, it’s on a par with SkyDemon in that regard.

But my point was earlier that SkyDemon doesn’t make claims it can’t substantiate.

Maybe you think PAW can claim what it likes, and that’s just “marketing puff”, I think it’d be better if they stayed factual.
gaznav liked this
User avatar
By skydriller
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1861159
Cessna571 wrote:He never posts about EC, only ever in reply to PAW claims.


Well that was a morning coffee-keyboard interface moment :lol: :lol: :lol:

Im not spending the time to check, but Gaz has definitely started EC threads, often (mostly?) promoting SE/SE2. I dont personally have a problem with that any more than others starting threads about PAW, Garmin, Skydemon, or anything else they want. I think what many object to is the constant bashing of one product or the other by the same posters - and a quick look at any EC thread on here will show who these posters are.
Rob P, Cessna571 liked this
By Cessna571
#1861162
skydriller wrote:
Cessna571 wrote:He never posts about EC, only ever in reply to PAW claims.


Well that was a morning coffee-keyboard interface moment :lol: :lol: :lol:

Im not spending the time to check, but Gaz has definitely started EC threads, often (mostly?) promoting SE/SE2. I dont personally have a problem with that any more than others starting threads about PAW, Garmin, Skydemon, or anything else they want. I think what many object to is the constant bashing of one product or the other by the same posters - and a quick look at any EC thread on here will show who these posters are.


Personally, I don’t think anyone bashes anything any more.

(Now the chief basher has stopped posting on the forum! and we all know who that was ;-) )

but I think it’s ok to clarify claims isn’t it? and I don’t think that’s bashing.

Anyway, remember there’s no such thing as bad publicity. If this thread stays at the top for a while, it’s done it’s job :thumleft: