Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
#1859333
JonathanB wrote:It often depends on the unit you’re going to. E.g leaving CAS for Gloucester but working Brize in between then you’d keep the airways squawk. Being transferred directly to Gloucester then you should be asked to squawk conspicuity. Leaving for Exeter or Oxford then you just stay on airways squawk. Leaving for Newquay then you’ll be given a Newquay squawk. If you’re free calling anywhere then it should be a “Squawk conspicuity”.


So, do as told by the controller?

If they say nowt, do nowt (and if you turn your radio off so be it)
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By AndyR
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#1859338
2Donkeys wrote:Interesting to see the diversity of answers from a number of people I know to be instrument rated pilots. If nothing else, it underlines my sense that this is not a particularly clearly understood topic.

My own practice, has been to hold onto the squawk until landing unless otherwise instructed. Would be interesting to hear a view from ATC.


Likewise, that’s always been the way I’ve handled it unless told to change. Which i don’t actually ever recall being instructed to do.
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By CloudHound
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#1859345
Just to add an answer.

Some small aerodromes sat in Class G airspace going through ACPs for RNP IAPs without approach control have applied for and been given discrete codes to wear when making the approach. This is so adjacent ATSUs can see that the subject is on the procedure.
#1859353
JonathanB wrote:It often depends on the unit you’re going to. E.g leaving CAS for Gloucester but working Brize in between then you’d keep the airways squawk. Being transferred directly to Gloucester then you should be asked to squawk conspicuity. Leaving for Exeter or Oxford then you just stay on airways squawk. Leaving for Newquay then you’ll be given a Newquay squawk. If you’re free calling anywhere then it should be a “Squawk conspicuity”.


My experience with that has been hit and miss, sometimes i get handover directly from airways unit to gloucester (sometimes with traffic service), but i had it happen to me when i was still inside class A and told to squawk 7000 and freecall next unit (it made brize ask me wherever i was talking to london previously). Same thing going to VFR only airfields, sometimes i've been told to keep the squawk sometimes to squawk conspicuity/7000,
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By GrahamB
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#1859371
CloudHound wrote:Just to add an answer.

Some small aerodromes sat in Class G airspace going through ACPs for RNP IAPs without approach control have applied for and been given discrete codes to wear when making the approach. This is so adjacent ATSUs can see that the subject is on the procedure.


So we'll see those in about five years time then. :)
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#1859384
Mike Tango wrote:It’s amazing how a simple question can illustrate what a broken ATC system we have.


I would not call it “broken” more “flexible” which makes these questions hard to answer when one single standard procedure is not in place, it’s hit & miss

In other places, you are defacto VFR the moment you are bellow CAS outside published routes (or radar MVA, airways MEA), the only way to keep IFR is to confirm you are going back up again and confirm ground in-sight

What is broken is the lack of “ATC standardisation” and clarity on clearances they could simply say “squawk conspicuity”, “clearance limit” or “cancel IFR” rather than dump you in the wrong spot 50nm away and just pretend you are VFR/7000…
Last edited by Ibra on Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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By JonathanB
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#1859386
jacekowski wrote:
My experience with that has been hit and miss, sometimes i get handover directly from airways unit to gloucester (sometimes with traffic service), but i had it happen to me when i was still inside class A and told to squawk 7000 and freecall next unit (it made brize ask me wherever i was talking to london previously). Same thing going to VFR only airfields, sometimes i've been told to keep the squawk sometimes to squawk conspicuity/7000,


Controllers are human and sometimes get it wrong!
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By BoeingBoy
#1859434
Under these circumstances, what is the expected transponder behaviour?

- Leave airways squawk on until outside controlled airspace and then set 7000 if continuing VFR.

- The same but set 2000 if continuing IFR.

The above unless otherwise instructed by an ATC unit.

That's the behaviour we adopted in all the airlines I flew for.
#1859437
BoeingBoy wrote:Under these circumstances, what is the expected transponder behaviour?

- Leave airways squawk on until outside controlled airspace and then set 7000 if continuing VFR.

- The same but set 2000 if continuing IFR.

The above unless otherwise instructed by an ATC unit.

That's the behaviour we adopted in all the airlines I flew for.


I guess for airlines there is a high risk of operating near destination minima, how do you join back ATS routes or CAS when flying IFR to alternates if you opt for 7000 VFR to destination?

This is easy in my VFR homebase in UK as there is an ILS 10min away and one can keep diversion options open or fly freestyle IFR but going elsewhere the setup may not be ideal (short of staying in airways until destination overhead?)
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By 2Donkeys
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#1859439
Ibra wrote:I guess for airlines there is a high risk of operating near destination minima, how do you join back ATS routes or CAS when flying IFR to alternates if you opt for 7000 VFR to destination?


I think, Ibra, that this is a bit of a red herring and not related to my original question.

I asked the question because I suspected that there wasn’t one singular correct answer and that it would highlight a confused procedure (at least in my mind). I think via this thread, I got the answer I expected.

If dropped from controlled airspace to continue to destination (either IFR or VFR), and you subsequently discover that you need to go back into CA in order, perhaps to go to an alternate, then you will call London Info referring to your original FlightPlan and they will get you your clearance. You then may, or may not get your old airways squawk back depending on the tactical solution deployed to route you to your alternate.
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#1859442
Yes I think London Info will be well placed to retreive FPL, clearance or even old squawk than some units between destination & alternate

For the original question, I doubt there is a correct answer what is missing is “squawk conspicuity” after leaving CAS with “radar service terminated, freecall en-route” and nothing else, the only thing I am sure about is 7600 on lost comms (ignoring the landing, not sure how much cruise on lost comms OCAS is different from not talking to anyone while VFR/IFR OCAS with freecall en-route and no handovers?)
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By rikur_
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#1859447
I had an unusual one during lockdown when many ATC units were closed. I'd had a service from a LARS unit, and got notified that I was reaching the edge of radar coverage area, but instead of 'squawk conspicuity and freecall en-route' I was downgraded to basic service, and advised 'you can stay with me, and when you lose radio contact, squawk conspicuity'. The small practical issue being that it was so quiet, that after 10 minutes I wasn't sure if I'd lost radio contact or all was just quiet!