Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
By Grumpy cricket
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1854333
Anyone having excessive demands for prepayments? I was told 24 hours before the annual was due that they required a pre-payment of 40 hours labour!!
If you don't want that make sure you change your CAMO well in advance otherwise one can be held to ransom as I was.
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By MichaelP
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1854348
I take a different point of view.
Years ago a certain Rallye was offered a £160 respray by a couple of guys who would give your car a respray in the driveway.
They sprayed Nitromores all over the airframe... It did wonderful things to the canopy perspex!

Myself and Art Bart spent hours cleaning this stuff off, especially inside the wings where we eventually restored the primer to try to protect them from corrosion.
The bill was of course high to rectify this.

In the dead of night a certain well known engineer of the time stole the aeroplane from the hangar!

So I always recommend anyone doing a job for anyone else where there’s a significant outlay required to issue a Proforma Invoice and get a reasonable deposit before starting the job.

Forty hours labour may be reasonable for many aeroplanes, and then there’s parts and materials.
Such a pre payment policy should be published I suppose.

It might be sudden due to experience with customers failing to pay on time, and then there’s the recent difficult times which have no doubt emptied many businesses of their capital.

Yes by all means take the aeroplane elsewhere, it’s a customer’s choice.
But if I was running a maintenance business I would want some money up front.
Of course aviation is often on the back foot with customers owing a lot of money to businesses... It’s the nature of an underfunded enterprise.
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By Peter Gristwood
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1854350
I'd be worried they were having cash flow difficulties and needed money urgently.

Some years ago I had some work done on my engine and the MO told me they were waiting on late payments totalling £150k + some of which were months overdue.

I can imagine some organisations might not survive given the months we've all had, so I'd be cautious here.
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By MichaelP
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1854351
Peter Gristwood wrote:I'd be worried they were having cash flow difficulties and needed money urgently.

Some years ago I had some work done on my engine and the MO told me they were waiting on late payments totalling £150k + some of which were months overdue.

I can imagine some organisations might not survive given the months we've all had, so I'd be cautious here.


Yes it’s a gamble either way.
If you don’t make an advanced payment the company might not survive in one instance.
In the other if you don’t pay your bill the maintenance company may end up with a serious debt burden to handle.
A deposit means sharing the risk!

How do other businesses cope?
If you get a contractor in to build a house extension do you have to make an advance payment?
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By BoeingBoy
#1854360
Most companies I've dealt with have a set figure for the annual (typically £2500). I've never been asked to pay up front for it. Twenty four hours notice is far too short and would make me think that the company are desperate for cash. I would also query why they feel I'm not trustworthy for the money?

I've had issues with two companies grossly over charging (one for forty hours labour to do a 'back to birth' survey that I didn't ask for). Another who used the Pandemic to magic up 100 hours of labour and then demanded payment within seven days. However, in both cases no prepayment was requested.

My current company usually invoice me about a month after the check. In once case I had to remind them to send me the bill.
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By Rob P
#1854363
MichaelP wrote:If you get a contractor in to build a house extension do you have to make an advance payment?


I would expect to pay for materials upfront and labour after they have laboured. Stage payments are a thing, but you have the security of seeing the structure and the stage it has reached.

I have never paid up front for car or aircraft maintenance.

Rob P
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By gasman
#1854368
BoeingBoy wrote:My current company usually invoice me about a month after the check. In once case I had to remind them to send me the bill.


I was watching my aeroplane on webcam being taxied from maintenance to my hangar when the emailed invoice for the annual pinged through :cry:
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By MichaelP
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1854376
Many aviation maintenance companies have contracted and billed in a non professional way for years and now, perhaps due to Covid, they are waking up to the precariousness of their modus operandi.

In my experience I have met many excellent engineers who were at the same time poor business managers. Their poor business management affected their ability to do their job, maintaining the aeroplanes.

So a good maintenance company has the ability to release the engineer to do the job, while a manager looks after the books and billing.

We all want to save money, but sometimes on the cheap leads to added expense, unhappiness, and frustration.
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By Sooty25
#1854402
Trust is a thing that is earned and built, it shouldn't be expected or assumed either way. Only those that have been a consumer AND the owner of a service business that had its fingers burnt, can understand. It often happens when you least expect it.

24hours is too short time wise though, pre-payment (part or full) should have been highlighted at the time of booking.
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By TLRippon
#1854403
I’ve been with several aircraft maintenance companies over the years and have never been asked for up front money.
Most invoice and I pay on receipt. One asked for payment on collection, which is fine, not many car servicing places let you drive away without paying. Conversely not many car service places would take a deposit for a service either.
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By GrahamB
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1854405
I’ve been with the same MO for fifteen years, and during that time, as you can imagine, bills for annuals have varied from a couple of thousand to several times that. Only once have I been asked for any advance payment, which was when I needed a new prop. The supplier had one in stock and wanted payment up front so that was passed down to me; just the parts, not any labour charge.

It would worry me if that were sprung on me out of the blue, as it sounds like they are desperate for cash.
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