Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1854229
Coo that's a serious piece of work, some food for thought in respect of those of us holding IRs as well as the wider population.
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By Rob L
#1854321
I added a new 21-year old pilot to my taildragger syndicate recently; 140 hours total (TT) time; only 10 hours tailwheel (of which none on type) and the additional premium was £nothing (but a fair £15.00 admin fee was charged by the broker for their time).

There was no requirement of minimum hours, or even of a required "check-out", but for due diligence the pilot did do a few minutes with the Instructor who supervised those 10 hours in a different tailwheel model before sending him solo in mine.

I've done similar with pilots with less than 100 hours TT and had similar results.

Rob L
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By flyingearly
#1854325
Just for transparency, in case it helps, we've just formed a group around a microlight we've just bought; one of the members is still a student and the difference in premium was around £190. This was with Visicover. The differential was between an ab initio student pre-solo and myself, the 2nd 'riskiest' member of the group with 60 hours total including pu/t (so, not much!).

Obviously, lots of things go into affecting the premium but my understanding was you're basically insuring the 'riskiest' member of the group and so anyone else less risky has no effect on the price you pay, as there is no incremental risk (although, I've never really understood that logic as presumably every additional member you add = more flying hours = more chance of claim, but there you go).
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By Melanie Moxon
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1854353
A syndicate that I was a member on had a 100+ hour limit for new members. I joined with something like 85 hours for a one off £100 insurance fee (it had only just been renewed so it applied to the full term). I still miss that aircraft :(
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By Rob L
#1854358
Melanie Moxon wrote:A syndicate that I was a member on had a 100+ hour limit for new members. I joined with something like 85 hours for a one off £100 insurance fee (it had only just been renewed so it applied to the full term). I still miss that aircraft :(


So your syndicate imposed the 100hr restriction and not the insurer? And the self-same syndicate allowed you to join at 85 hours + the insurer's fee (sensible).

This supports the Original Poster's post that there is no insurer's requirement for 100 hours: It's a group requirement.

Rob L
By Maxthelion
#1854359
I've personal experience of this. It's always been a group requirement rather than an insurance requirement. In one instance the group was happy to cover the extra £65 or so, and I think in another I paid the extra £50 required myself. I've never been turned away from a group for low hours. I've also never had an accident or otherwise made a claim. I'm now in the realms of having enough hours to rarely be the lowest hours guy in the room, but it's taken a long time an a clean sheet to be the kind of low risk that insurers prefer.
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By akg1486
#1854364
Dodo wrote:It requires a fee to read the whole paper, but the summary indicates that inexperienced pilots are more prone to accidents involving pilot error, whereas male pilots over 60 (and therefore, one assumes, more experienced) are more likely to be involved in a fatal accident.

Are there any insurance companies or groups that require 60+ male pilots to pay more? I imagine that fatal accidents, even if they are less common that prop strikes are very much more expensive.
By GAFlyer4Fun
#1854369
When I got my PPL I remember there was an airfield where I was told it was a PFA recommendation to have at least 100 hrs.

I guess it depends how simple or complex an airfield is.
Big runway, rectangular circuits, no trees/hills, low number of aircraft allowed in the circuit at any one time

vs

Multiple runways, upslopes/downslops, tall trees, noise abatement areas, offset approaches, very busy circuit with mix of slow/fast types.

Some low timers will cope ok with either but some might struggle with the latter.

The group checkout flight will identify whether the applicant is ready for the quirks of that airfield
or place additional requirements for dual flights for a while. I suppose another possibility is the group could say no thanks to the applicant until they get more experience elsewhere.
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By Melanie Moxon
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1854382
Rob L wrote:
Melanie Moxon wrote:A syndicate that I was a member on had a 100+ hour limit for new members. I joined with something like 85 hours for a one off £100 insurance fee (it had only just been renewed so it applied to the full term). I still miss that aircraft :(


So your syndicate imposed the 100hr restriction and not the insurer? And the self-same syndicate allowed you to join at 85 hours + the insurer's fee (sensible).

This supports the Original Poster's post that there is no insurer's requirement for 100 hours: It's a group requirement.

Rob L


No, the insurance policy stipulated 100hrs + iirc, it was nearly four years ago now and after my first year in the syndicate became irrelevant as I flew the aircraft rather a lot so the exact wording escapes me.
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By akg1486
#1854418
GAFlyer4Fun wrote:When I got my PPL I remember there was an airfield where I was told it was a PFA recommendation to have at least 100 hrs.

I guess it depends how simple or complex an airfield is.

A new pilot will of course be most comfortable in an environment that is as close to home as possible. I trained at a controlled airfield with a long tarmac runway with (often) plenty of crosswind, so I was uncomfortable on uncontrolled airfield with grass after I just got my PPL. For others, it's the other way around.

The number of hours is a very crude measurement: anyone who sticks to the home airfield and only flies in perfect condition won't really be more "experienced" after 100 hours. You only become experienced by stretching your comfort zone little by little: longer flights requiring more planning; shorter stips; complicated airspace; crosswind; otherwise "poor" weather, etc. In my opinion, the best way to do that is to fly with other pilots. Or, of course, an instructor.
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By Dave W
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1854420
akg1486 wrote:... anyone who sticks to the home airfield and only flies in perfect condition won't really be more "experienced" after 100 hours. You only become experienced by stretching your comfort zone little by little...

Spot on.

As the old saw has it: "Have you got 100 hours experience, or 1 hour repeated 100 times?"
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By Forfoxake
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1854452
Sir Morley Steven wrote:The groups asking for 100 plus need to read "The Killing Zone."


This book highlighted the statistic that of the 2501 fatal GA accidents in the USA between 1983 and 2000, in 57% the private and student pilots had between 50 and 350 hours flight time- the so called killing zone.