Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By Highland Park
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1861602
Sorry for being really thick, but to be clear:

I have a (former EASA) PPL issued in the UK in 2012. I have a current LAPL Medical, issued December 2020.

My syndicate friend has a (former EASA) PPL issued in the UK and has recently submitted a PMD.

We both fly a 1961 PA-22.

Does that mean that both of us can now once more fly to France (which I thought until I read this thread, was an avenue closed to me with a LAPL medical)?

TIA

Ian
#1861630
PA-22-108 Colt, PA22-150 Caribbean and PA22-160 Tri-Pacer are all non-Part 21 aeroplanes.

Well, I'm very pleased to say that the CAA, who knew nothing of this agreement beforehand, have today been in touch with the DGAC and have now confirmed that G-reg non-Part 21 aircraft may indeed be operated for periods of up to 28 consecutive days by pilots holding valid UK-issued pilot licences which include such privileges. This does include NPPL and LAPL and also pilots who have made PMDs.

I have suggested that a SkyWise is issued to publicise the fact more 'officially'. Also to remind pilots that the DGAC agreement does not extend to Part 21 aircraft.
patowalker, G-BLEW, Paul_Sengupta and 1 others liked this
By patowalker
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1861643
How can the CAA claim they knew nothing about this agreement? It has been in place since at least 2012.

ORS4 No. 910 http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/ORS4_910.pdf was issued in response to
https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/jorf/id/ ... 0025413653, which in turn was replaced by https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTe ... 0036437838, extending it to aircraft registered in EEA countries and Switzerland.

Pilots have been availing themselves of these privileges for years. It is only the clarification on the acceptance of a PMD that is recent. Even that should not have come as a surprise, because similar DGAC wording applies to foreign microlights and their pilots have always flown to France on a PMD.
G-BLEW liked this
#1861648
patowalker wrote:How can the CAA claim they knew nothing about this agreement? It has been in place since at least 2012.

Perhaps Nick needs to find some more senior contacts :lol:

Seriously though, I suspect in the licensing context the question may not have rung a bell framed around PMD etc, remember it is not a licensing agreement as such, more a happy side effect of an airworthiness one. The CAA are obviously aware of it since Stephen Slater's initial post mentions quite a senior CAA policy lead who assisted with the update.
#1861681
Always a problem when you get rid of experienced staff and start to rely on agency and inexperienced staff. You lose the corporate memory and end up making mistakes the old gits would tell you not to do.

I'm surrounded by young keen graduates whose brilliant ideas were those we looked at 50 years ago, but there are still one or two dinosaurs left tutting away and saying 'that's brave'
By patowalker
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1863097
https://mailchi.mp/caa/operation-of-non ... 1a38586459

The French Civil Aviation Authority (DGAC) has agreed that UK-registered non-Part 21 aircraft (e.g. microlights, amateur built, historic*) may be flown VFR in French airspace, for periods not exceeding 28 consecutive days, by pilots holding valid UK-issued licences which include such privileges. This includes pilots holding a valid Pilot Medical Declaration.


This only dates back to 8 January 2018. :D
By patowalker
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1863314
I understand the title of the SkyWise announcement on the 'Operation of non-Part 21 UK registered aircraft in France', has led some SSDR pilots to believe this covers their aircraft. This is not the case, as the French decree specifically requires a valid permit to fly.

1 - they have a valid flight permit, issued by the said State or an organisation with a
delegation by the said State,
By patowalker
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1863429
Acceptance of the UK non-EASA LAPL was automatic, as it is covered by Article 4.

The PMD has also been accepted since 2018. This is clear from the DGAC's response to my enquiry:
"The medical licence is included in the « pilot’s licence » term. Indeed, the pilot’s licence is only valid if the pilot holds a valid medical.
So, if PMD is authorised in the UK to fly a homebuilt aircraft, PMD is valid to come to fly in France with your amateur built aircaft in the conditions/limitations stated in the decree dated 8 January 2018."

The only change has been the reinstatement of the UK among the countries covered by the decree, following a brief exclusion following Brexit.

Why the LAA, CAA and others wish to present this as a new agreement, I don't know.
Kemble Pitts liked this
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