Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By ls8pilot
#1853196
A friend of mine is preparing his paper work for his SPL conversion (from BGA certificates), which luckily the BGA are managing in the main. He also has a lifetime UK PPL with accompanying FRTOL (also lifetime), but has not been flying for a few years so never got an English Language assessment on record. BGA advised him to get one so the FRTOL can go on the SPL.....

So he looks on the CAA site, is directed to SRG1199 Application for Record of English Language Assessment, fills it in an gets it signed. Sends it off with the requisite certified copies of identity,,,,

CAA return it and say "SRG1199 is no longer valid as a paper form, you need to use the online system" and send back the SRG1199 form. (Note: no mention of this on the website)

He duly fills in the online form, submits it and gets a note saying "We need a certified copy of your Record of English Language Assessment". He thinks "but you just returned this to me", but duly resends the SRG1199

Gets another email from the CAA saying that form is invalid. They then direct him to CAA5003: Evidence of UK Examination and Test for Grant of Flight RadioTelephony Operator’s Licence, so he calls them and says "but I already have a lifetime licence". After much debate and discussion with supervisors he is told he does'nt need to take the exam again but must get an examiner to sign CAA5003 saying he has level 6 English.....

You could'nt make this up if you tried....

The PMD fiasco continues, current BGA advice is to print out the (incomplete) summary and then follow this advice

Copy of online Pilot Medical Declaration.

Please note that having made a Pilot Medical Declaration on the Cellma site, you will then be presented with a summary of your medical self–declaration. We recommend that you print a copy of your self–declaration. However, the declaration you print may be incomplete, ie missing name and PMD submission number. The CAA recommends that the pilot print and countersign the medical self-declaration page with the following:

‘I confirm this pilot medical declaration print out is applicable to me and is correct’

Print Name
CAA Reference Number
Sign
Date

This will link the self-declaration approval to the pilot and enable a check of the signature against that of the pilot’s licence for assurance purposes if required.
2Donkeys, Rob P, johnm and 1 others liked this
User avatar
By ls8pilot
#1853198
Rob P wrote:Frankly, I despair.

Rob P


Yes indeed, who on earth designs a computer system that at the end requires you to print out the confirmation, scrawl across it with your name and other info, then scan that back again!

Plus of course if you look under "certificates" on the CELLMA system you will find no mention of your PMD anyway, you have to look under previous contacts or some such garbage.....

It looks like no-one ever did any kind of functional test on this system and frankly if some-one submitted this for a GCSE Computer science project you would fail them!

The sad part is the CAA are no doubt under-staffed, but this mess is just meaning more people end up calling them, taking up staff time & making them more under-staffed..... :evil:
By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1853202
This happening all over the place and stems from the fact that with the B word the normal change management process has been reversed.

Usually we understand requirement, do some design and development, test and implement. In this case we have implemented and now we're testing and then designing and implementing on an iterative basis and at this rate we'll be doing it for years :roll:
A le Ron, Dominie liked this
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By lobstaboy
#1853203
ls8pilot wrote:
Rob P wrote:Frankly, I despair.

Rob P


Yes indeed, who on earth designs a computer system that at the end requires you to print out the confirmation, scrawl across it with your name and other info, then scan that back again!

Plus of course if you look under "certificates" on the CELLMA system you will find no mention of your PMD anyway, you have to look under previous contacts or some such garbage.....

It looks like no-one ever did any kind of functional test on this system and frankly if some-one submitted this for a GCSE Computer science project you would fail them!

The sad part is the CAA are no doubt under-staffed, but this mess is just meaning more people end up calling them, taking up staff time & making them more under-staffed..... :evil:


Classic example of the pi55 poor outcome you get when no-one is properly managing the IT people and the IT people are guessing what their internal customer needs without understanding the processes. No-one will have mapped the actual processes that the people and paper systems ran, as opposed to what the manual said they ran. People are flexible and can make poorly designed processes work because they grasp what is trying to be done. IT doesn't, and can't.
Often we used to find you could get the productivity improvements promised by expensive IT solutions by working on the people/paper processes - and you were going to have to do this anyway before you could implement the IT development activity.
Someone at the CAA has said, "IT will sort things for us." No it won't, it'll just expose that you are in a muddle.
Grrrr... I just want to forget all that stuff and go flying.
Steve J, rusty eagle liked this
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By ls8pilot
#1853207
lobstaboy wrote:
......
Grrrr... I just want to forget all that stuff and go flying.


Agree with that @lobstaboy - for me it's been 35 years in the IT industry & a degree in Computer Science before that - now I'm glad to say all behind me. It's just I thought this degree of professional incompetence went out with the sort of systems we implemented in the 1980's - sadly not it seems :cry:
lobstaboy liked this
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By nallen
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1853208
Makes you wonder how bad the companies that lost out on getting the Cellma contract were. (Oh, you mean it wasn't competitively tendered…)
Flyin'Dutch', A le Ron liked this
User avatar
By ls8pilot
#1853209
nallen wrote:Makes you wonder how bad the companies that lost out on getting the Cellma contract were. (Oh, you mean it wasn't competitively tendered…)


Ummm yes, you might say it makes you wonder who they knew in the conservative party... of course I could'nt possibly comment :lol:
nallen liked this
By Forfoxake
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1853211
G-BLEW wrote:Check out this story in the news section, comments also worth reading.

Ian


Looking forward to at least 2 rants tomorrow evening, Ian.

Though it is a pity they are necessary....

PS Perhaps, like MH, GS is, in the words of the PM, "Totally [expletive] hopeless."
ls8pilot, gaznav liked this
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By G-BLEW
Boss Man  Boss Man
#1853212
Forfoxake wrote:
G-BLEW wrote:Check out this story in the news section, comments also worth reading.

Ian


Looking forward to at least 2 rants tomorrow evening, Ian.

Though it is a pity they are necessary....

PS Perhaps, like MH, GS is, in the words of the PM, "Totally [expletive] hopeless."


I am wondering how this mess gets turned around.

Ian
By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1853222
G-BLEW wrote:
I am wondering how this mess gets turnded around.

Ian


Sadly it may never be, a major regulatory failure on drones is our best hope but I fear we’re seeing symptoms of a wider malaise across HMG. The passport office and DVLA work tolerably well but after that you’ll struggle to find a working public service. :(
User avatar
By A le Ron
#1853238
Bald Sparrow wrote:
G-BLEW wrote:I am wondering how this mess gets turned around.
Ian


The regulator has to admit there is a problem first.
Ineptitude is unfortunate, but soluble; lack of insight and lack of accountability, less so.
Stampe, Flyin'Dutch', T6Harvard and 2 others liked this
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