Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
#1854088
I'm afraid you've over-simplified it a bit there Steve (and there's no LAPL microlights)...

'old' UK PPL(A)
old UK PPL(D)
old UK PPL(M)
UK issued JAR PPL
UK issued EASA PPL (gone but still valid)
'new' UK FCL PPL
UK issued EASA LAPL (gone but valid)
UK LAPL (SEP)
'old' EASA LAPL (SEP)
LAPL (microlights)
UK NPPL (aircraft)
UK NPPL (microlights)
UK SLMG PPL

And of course, you missed all the professional licences out.

Yes, complete and utter mess.

We need:-

- UK sub-ICAO PPL (merging some PPLs, all NPPLs and ex-EASA LAPLs, UK-FCL LAPLs)
- UK ICAO PPL (merging UK PPLs, JAR PPLs, ex-EASA PPLs, new UK-FCL PPLs, old UK BCPLs)
- UK ICAO CPL (merging UK, JAR, ex-EASA, UK-FCL)
- UK ICAO ATPL (merging UK, JAR, ex-EASA, UK-FCL)

That is four licences, after that all we need is ratings: class, type, and functional.

G
By PaulisHome
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1854098
Genghis the Engineer wrote:I'm afraid you've over-simplified it a bit there Steve (and there's no LAPL microlights)...

'old' UK PPL(A)
old UK PPL(D)
old UK PPL(M)
UK issued JAR PPL
UK issued EASA PPL (gone but still valid)
'new' UK FCL PPL
UK issued EASA LAPL (gone but valid)
UK LAPL (SEP)
'old' EASA LAPL (SEP)
LAPL (microlights)
UK NPPL (aircraft)
UK NPPL (microlights)
UK SLMG PPL

And of course, you missed all the professional licences out.

Yes, complete and utter mess.

We need:-

- UK sub-ICAO PPL (merging some PPLs, all NPPLs and ex-EASA LAPLs, UK-FCL LAPLs)
- UK ICAO PPL (merging UK PPLs, JAR PPLs, ex-EASA PPLs, new UK-FCL PPLs, old UK BCPLs)
- UK ICAO CPL (merging UK, JAR, ex-EASA, UK-FCL)
- UK ICAO ATPL (merging UK, JAR, ex-EASA, UK-FCL)

That is four licences, after that all we need is ratings: class, type, and functional.

G


Slightly simpler than that. There is now no longer such a thing as a "UK issued EASA PPL (gone but still valid)" It is already a "new UK FCL PPL" even though that's not what it says. If you have one that says UK and EASA on it, the laws that apply are UK, not EASA.

Similarly for the "UK issued EASA LAPL (gone but valid)"

But I agree entirely with the conclusion. [Although we might also want to consider the dimension of medicals. Also, we might aim for the sub-ICAO license to be accepted in Europe.]

Paul
User avatar
By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1854136
JAFO wrote:@SteveX - you listed far too many. In fact, we don't have any licenses in the UK. :wink:

If you go back a page, our Minster for Aviation thinks we have
#1854140
PaulisHome wrote:
But I agree entirely with the conclusion. [Although we might also want to consider the dimension of medicals. Also, we might aim for the sub-ICAO license to be accepted in Europe.]

Paul


Medicals should be just as simple.

Class 1
Class 2
Verified self declaration (which could look very like the old FCL150B/A)

Publish a simple table somewhere of permissions associated with licences and medicals, and let pilots fly to the lowest they have of their licence and medical at that time.

Job done.

G
By PaulisHome
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1854151
patowalker wrote:That is fine for those who can pass a Class 2. I can't, even though I hold LAPL and FAA Class 3 medicals, which are now useless in Europe.


I think that's the point.

Let's ignore the commercial licenses for a moment.

For the PPL and Sub ICAO, then a Class 2 or PMD should be adequate.

Your privileges might vary according to the class of medical (you might need a Class 2 to fly abroad, for example).

Whether a LAPL medical is needed would depend on whether we could get agreement with Europe on the Sub-ICAO license.

Paul
By patowalker
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1854166
We cannot get agreement with Europe on the LAPL. That has already been made clear by EASA. They will not get involved in negotiations on a sub-ICAO licence, so the matter must be taken up with individual NAAs. The CAA has already given away any leverage in this regard by accepting foreign LAPLs in UK airspace.
#1854175
PaulisHome wrote:
patowalker wrote:That is fine for those who can pass a Class 2. I can't, even though I hold LAPL and FAA Class 3 medicals, which are now useless in Europe.


I think that's the point.

Let's ignore the commercial licenses for a moment.

For the PPL and Sub ICAO, then a Class 2 or PMD should be adequate.

Your privileges might vary according to the class of medical (you might need a Class 2 to fly abroad, for example).

Whether a LAPL medical is needed would depend on whether we could get agreement with Europe on the Sub-ICAO license.

Paul


Exactly. The old FCL/150A/B, the NPPL PMD, variations upon a theme are all broadly in the same place and appropriate for people who want to fly recreationally - that's the third layer in my list.

G
By patowalker
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1854199
I would like to know what the difference is between a sub-ICAO LAPL medical and an ICAO compliant FAA Third Class medical.

I usually have them done together in the UK, so can't tell what bits of the examination correspond to which medical. Now I have had the FAA one done in the States and still can't tell the difference. It seems to me the LAPL medical is very close to being ICAO compliant.
Last edited by patowalker on Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.