Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
#1853486
nickwilcock wrote:No - you would need to ask the DfT! They, not the CAA, made the regulation:

' The ratings SSEA, SLMG and TMG have the meanings given in Schedule 1 to the Air Navigation Order 2016, and the rating SEP refers to a single-engine piston aeroplane of the kind described in Annex 1, Subpart B, point FCL.105.A(a) to this Regulation.'


I can't remember the last time I got a straight answer to a straight question from the DfT!

Thanks

Ian
User avatar
By Dodo
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1853490
nickwilcock wrote:A very nice chap at the CAA (brown envelope to the usual place, mate!) has now confirmed that national UK licence holders with SEP Class Ratings using the SI amendment are only restricted to LAPL-level aeroplane limits - i.e. 2000 kg MTOM / 4 PoB max. No other LAPL privilege restrictions apply to them.


It is the interface between the use of the restricted (sub 2000Kg) PMD with the use of Part 21 a/c on National lifetime PPLs that is of particular interest to me. At the moment this is all theoretical as I also hold a FCL PPL and a Class 2 medical but in the second half of my seventh decade I am keen to future proof my flying as far as I can.

If I have interpreted this all correctly, then, if I choose not to renew my class 2..

a) I think this means, that in the UK, I can use my IMC rating in a sub 2000kg part 21 single engine aeroplane with my Lifetime (pre JAR) UK PPL, with with a (full <5400Kg) PMD, and an SEP rating.

b) If I ever needed to, i.e. if my health deteriorated in the future, I could resubmit the PMD as a sub 2000kg PMD and still use my IMC rating on the same pre JAR licence in the same part 21 aeroplane.



Is any of that correct?
User avatar
By Dave W
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1853492
What does any of this contribute to "simplifying licensing" (the 'Number 1 strategic programme' for the GA Unit, as stated* only a month or so ago by Sophie O'Sullivan)?

More to the point, what does it add to flight safety?


*From about 6:00 here in an interview with Ian.
T67M liked this
#1853503
Interesting, and mostly good. So those of us with national licences can, almost, do everything with our licences that we were always supposed to be able to do.

Well the 2000kg limit will, in reality, impact almost nobody - the odd Spitfire or AN2 pilot with a legacy licence may be inconvenienced. So basically, good - those handful of people fill find workarounds.

But - just, well, why? What possible justification is there for that limit? Is it basically just there in order to allow CAA to convince DfT that some restrictions have been placed on national licence holders, whilst CAA are actually on our side and trying to restrict us as little as possible? That's what it increasingly looks like to me (aside from a bit of miscommunication, which I'm sure was incompetence rather than malign intent).

G
#1853572
patowalker wrote:If you wanted to simplify licencing, wouldn't it make sense to ensure all non-Part FCL licences had the same privileges, say like a LAPL?


No, but you could readily let all non-FCL licences have the same privileges as FCL licences with the same ratings. (Thus making them in effect all the same, and allowing you to converge them together painlessly. )

Giving a legacy ATPL holder only the privileges of a LAPL is hardly reasonable- as seems to be finally, nearly, recognised.

G
User avatar
By Human Factor
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1853638
If you wanted to simplify licencing, wouldn't it make sense to ensure all non-Part FCL licences had the same privileges, say like a LAPL?


If you wanted to simplify licensing, you wouldn’t have this ridiculous two-tier system in the first place. Sadly there seems no-one in the Belgrano for now capable of getting a grip.
User avatar
By skydriller
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1853912
I'll Say it again:

What I dont understand is why the UK CAA/Dft cant just say “As of 1/1/2021, UK ICAO PPL = UK Part23 PPL”.
Similarly they could also do the same for the sub-ICAO licences and say “As of 1/1/20221, UK NPPL = UK LAPL”.
It would sure make everything alot easier and save alot of work for pilots & the CAA equally…
Bathman liked this
User avatar
By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1853919
@skydriller Well, we don't have to guess or speculate, I can pass on an answer to that from almost the top of tbe pile, ROBERT COURTS, MP MINISTER FOR AVIATION, MARITIME AND SECURITY in a letter to my MP at the end of October 2020.
i tried 3 times in 2020 to get the DfT to do something for national licence holders for 1/1/21.
The first, early on, to APPG (no answer except an internal one accidentally sent to me, basically saying "Huh?"), then two via MP (official contact has to be done via own MP to pass on). One in Spring 2020, (no answer from DfT at all), one in August 2020 asking why no answer, and finally at end of October, this was passed back via MP, from the Minister, who writes, about such licenses:
Thank you for your email of 14 August enclosing correspondence from your constituent, Irvin Lee, about licenses for private flying. I am sorry for the time it has taken to provide a response.
As you are aware, we are making all the necessary preparations for a smooth transition from 1 January 2021. All EU aviation safety legislation will be retained in the UK. The legislation will be corrected in so far as is necessary to enable it to function correctly in the UK. However, we will not be making any changes to the technical requirements of the legislation. The pilot licensing requirements will therefore remain as they are in the short term.
We are working with the Civil Aviation Authority to determine what changes to the legislation might be necessary and the establishment of a single licensing system is one that has been highlighted. These changes will need to be carefully considered and industry will need to be consulted. This will take some time to implement. I understand this may be disappointing to your constituent but any legislative changes will need to be considered in light of wider legislative demands and priorities in the post-Transition Period period.

(An echo at end, there, must have been writing in a big empty room)
Dodo liked this
User avatar
By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1853952
@Dodo my 2 page one sheet was done same day, as usual, and I may get time today for webpages. At the moment my head is totally over-swamped with examiner AoC stuff, 3 cancelled so far this week, 3 booked next week. It is the sort of thing that needs "doing" as soon as it can be, it isn't the test that is the problem, major as it is, it is the prep that weighs the most, and only the test actually happening cures that. Also bookings coming in for radio course n3xt weekend to deal with
Dodo liked this
User avatar
By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1853963
@Dodo of course, re "my letter vs the answer", the collar didn't match the cuffs, my request was not for a unified system by Jan 1st, my request was that they should initially find a (any) way to let NPPL-SSEA (example) fly the aircraft they had been tested on, PA28s (for example), from Jan 1st, reverting to the status on 31/1/2020, the day that we last had a vote in EASA, but providing the "right signals" in a simple way that was clearly righting a wrong.
It is quite possible (guessing...) that the EU legislation they carried over had the standard EASA Papal Infallibilty still in it, with 'exemptions' not possible, which is distasteful to me, but none the less infecting it, but they did have a small aviation bill planned for January altering the adopted EU law in a couple of ways, and it just needed a paragraph in it allowing exemptions to be issued by the SoS like they can be in the ANO.
What we got in June seems to be the temporary solution (31/1/20) that I asked for, for Jan 1st, the 6 month delay perhaps showing politicians don't understand politics.
#1854012
skydriller wrote:I'll Say it again:

What I dont understand is why the UK CAA/Dft cant just say “As of 1/1/2021, UK ICAO PPL = UK Part23 PPL”.
Similarly they could also do the same for the sub-ICAO licences and say “As of 1/1/20221, UK NPPL = UK LAPL”.
It would sure make everything alot easier and save alot of work for pilots & the CAA equally…


Yep.

Basically merge national ICAO licences and FCL licences, and separately merge LAPLs and NPPLs. A few simple rules for conditions and ratings, job done.

(Part FCL incidentally, Part 23 is something else altogether).

G
Bathman, skydriller liked this
#1854078
Can I check the types of license all in existence at present in UK, anything missing from below? I'm mostly of the opinion - one license, one medical for all (PPL). ICAO compliant so they can use overseas. Though perhaps merit in a lesser version but then I struggle to see why 30 hours vs 45 for eg. makes any sense even for those not wishing to progress, a kind of 'sports recreational' license that is more aligned with home built stuff and day VFR use with say just one passenger allowed. Anyway that list, is this all of them:

'old' UK PPL(A)
UK issued EASA PPL (gone but still valid)
'new' UK FCL PPL
UK issued EASA LAPL (gone but valid)
UK LAPL (aircraft)
UK LAPL (microlights)
UK NPPL (aircraft)
UK NPPL (microlights)
UK SLMG PPL

Probably errors in that but what a shambles. Suggest one PPL for all privileges and one lesser PPL for perhaps UK only microlights and 2 seaters only.