Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
By patowalker
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1854206
A UK Class 2 is a Part Med Class 2, not an ICAO Class 2.

The FAA Third Class does not require ECGs, unless a medical history makes it advisable, while age related ECGs are mandatory for a Part Med Class 2,

Anyway, I know the difference between a LAPL and a 'UK' Class 2. I pass one and not the other.

As a LAPL medical appears to be very similar to an FAA Third Class, I wonder what it would take to make UK LAPL medicals ICAO Class 2 compliant. I believe this would benefit a considerable number of UK pilots.
By PaulisHome
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1854218
Genghis the Engineer wrote:I'm afraid you've over-simplified it a bit there Steve (and there's no LAPL microlights)...
We need:-

- UK sub-ICAO PPL (merging some PPLs, all NPPLs and ex-EASA LAPLs, UK-FCL LAPLs)
- UK ICAO PPL (merging UK PPLs, JAR PPLs, ex-EASA PPLs, new UK-FCL PPLs, old UK BCPLs)
- UK ICAO CPL (merging UK, JAR, ex-EASA, UK-FCL)
- UK ICAO ATPL (merging UK, JAR, ex-EASA, UK-FCL)

That is four licences, after that all we need is ratings: class, type, and functional.

G


A further comment on this: To simplify, we need to actually get rid of the old licenses - not just add another one to the mix. A lot of complexity in the licensing system is that people can have any one of a number of different paths, and they don't map onto each other perfectly.

So make it simple, then provide a very easy path for someone with the other type of license to get the UK version, at which point the old licenses don't work any more.

And if you really want simplicity, you'd make all the N-reg G-reg, and fly them with UK licenses. I suspect that some may not want that level of simplicity though.

Paul

Paul
#1854249
And if you really want simplicity, you'd make all the N-reg G-reg, and fly them with UK licenses. I suspect that some may not want that level of simplicity though.


The licensing element of this will happen in December (although that has made things more complex rather than simpler). I am not sure what extra simplification forcing a registration change would bring?



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By nallen
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1854251
Do licensing authorities (CAA, etc.) decide themselves that a licence/medical is ICAO compliant, or do they submit these to the ICAO for approval?
By riverrock
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1854261
patowalker wrote:A UK Class 2 is a Part Med Class 2, not an ICAO Class 2.

The FAA Third Class does not require ECGs, unless a medical history makes it advisable, while age related ECGs are mandatory for a Part Med Class 2,

Anyway, I know the difference between a LAPL and a 'UK' Class 2. I pass one and not the other.

As a LAPL medical appears to be very similar to an FAA Third Class, I wonder what it would take to make UK LAPL medicals ICAO Class 2 compliant. I believe this would benefit a considerable number of UK pilots.

As far as the FAA is concerned, an FAA Class 3 = ICAO Class 2, with exceptions.
See https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publica ... n_1.7.html Chapter 2 Reference 2.3.1.4
You can then read the exceptions (all countries issue a list of differences between their rules and ICAO).

As far as the UK is concerned, a UK Class 2 (Part-Med or under ANO) = ICAO Class 2 with exceptions.

So what you are really asking, is could CAA issue a list of exceptions to the ICAO standards for Class 2 for a UK Class 2. The answer, of course, is yes as we already do that, but we only have a few minor differences.

LAPL is sub-ICAO. So what you are asking for is to increase the LAPL medical requirements to a Class 2, then remove the bits you don't like. I suggest the answer is no. It doesn't make sense as we already have a Class 2 medical. If you want to campaign on something, campaign for additional exceptions to ICAO Class 2, to reduce the requirements for our Class 2.
By patowalker
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1854275
riverrock wrote:LAPL is sub-ICAO. So what you are asking for is to increase the LAPL medical requirements to a Class 2, then remove the bits you don't like. I suggest the answer is no. It doesn't make sense as we already have a Class 2 medical. If you want to campaign on something, campaign for additional exceptions to ICAO Class 2, to reduce the requirements for our Class 2.


Thanks for background info.

I am not about to campaign for anything. I just find it frustrating that I have a US ICAO Class 2 compliant medical and can't get a UK ICAO Class 2 compliant medical, due to the different exceptions.
I also would like to know the difference between the LAPL and FAA Third Class medicals. I could compare the published standards, but that would be too much like hard work. :D
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By nallen
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1854305
Paul_Sengupta wrote:The UK used to have a Class 3 medical for PPLs. That was abolished when the EuroJARs came in and it became Class 1 or 2 only.


Was that UK Class 3 ICAO compatible, do you happen to know?