Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
User avatar
By carlmeek
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1852763
I'm a bit confused about how these work. I'm hoping to do an "Assessment of Competence" to become an Aerobatic instructor fairly soon.

I understand that AOPA have 'certificates' which are applicable to UK national licenses - but for flying uncertified aircraft they are not actually required, just a good idea.

I understand that EASA requires a rating to fly aerobatics in a certified aircraft. However, I can't see any Syllabus for this listed on the DTO accepted courses.

So - If I want to teach Aerobatics, I presumably can teach the AOPA ones, but what about an official rating? Can they be done under a DTO or do they need an ATO?

And is the rating the same now we're Brexit'ed?

Thanks :-)
By riverrock
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1852776
I fly non-certified so have not bothered with the rating.

On track have a good summary:
https://www.ontrackaviation.com/aerobatic-rating.html
DTO can do aerobatic ratings (see https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/CAP1637 )

AOPA's course, I understand, has no legal basis, although someone who had done one could have got an aero rating on their licence (would need to check if/when there was a cut off on that)
Last edited by riverrock on Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#1852777
As I understand it, aerobatics in a part 21 aircraft requires the pilot to add an EASA aerobatics rating to their EASA licence. This cannot be delivered at a UK DTO as third-country (non EU) EASA DTOs don't exist - it would need to be a UK ATO registered either direct with EASA or an EASA Member State. For non-part 21 aircraft no aerobatics rating required, but AOPA aerobatics course highly recommended. You don't need to be a DTO or ATO to deliver the training, but you would need to register with AOPA. I think that's the gist of the current situation, but happy to be corrected.
By riverrock
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1852781
@Yakovlevs - what are these EASA licences I hear you speak of?
Mine ceased to be that due to Brexit - its now a UK Part FCL licence. So it wont be an "EASA aerobatics rating" - but a UK Part FCL Aerobatics rating presumably ? Obviously - everything would be more complicated if you're licence isn't a UK one.
#1852788
Indeed @riverrock and no such UK Part-FCL aerobatics rating exists at the moment and so, on the face of it, one would need to hold an EASA licence with EASA aerobatics rating endorsement to fly aerobatics in part 21 aircraft in UK airspace. Unless, that is, the CAA will permit UK Part FCL licence holders to fly aerobatics in part 21 aircraft in UK airspace without an aerobatics rating, or with an AOPA aerobatics course completion certificate, or with something else they've just come up with but haven't told us about yet. Bit of a muddle, isn't it!
User avatar
By MattL
#1852811
@Yakovlevs not the case at all. U.K. DTOs can teach for the Aerobatics rating for U.K. Part-FCL licences just as they can for any other Part-FCL course. The only pre approved syllabus is the AOPA one; DTOs can submit their own but would be subject to the CAA validation fees.
#1852814
Happy to be corrected and have just spoken with On Track who confirm that they will now teach exactly the same aerobatics course to a UK licence holder as for an EASA licence holder and pilots will receive either a UK or EASA (or both if they hold both licences) aerobatic rating on completion. Apologies for the confusion!
User avatar
By Cookie
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1852820
I'm a bit confused about how these work. I'm hoping to do an "Assessment of Competence" to become an Aerobatic instructor fairly soon.


Assuming you're already a CRI, it is unlikely that you will pass an assessment of competence to add aerobatic instructional privileges unless you have completed a reasonable amount of aerobatics and some training with a FIC instructor on how to teach aerobatics beforehand. Included in the training will be details of the Aerobatics Rating course and associated privileges. Courses for the UK Part-FCL Aerobatics Rating or EASA equivalent must be conducted somewhere with the relevant ATO approval or DTO declaration.

Prior to EASA, the course to add aerobatic instructional privileges used to be five hours including the assessment; often instructors pitched up for the course with very little aerobatic experience. EASA removed the course requirement but retained the assessment which can be completed by a FIC Instructor or an FIE.

I recommend you speak with a good ATO conducting FIC training to complete your training and assessment.

ATB Cookie