Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
By Rjk983
#1852032
GrahamB wrote:
1.2 There are three categories of FPL:

a) Full Flight Plans - the information filed on the FPL Form (CA48/RAF F2919);
b) Repetitive Flight Plans (see Chapter 4); and
c) Abbreviated Flight Plans - the limited information required to obtain a clearance for a portion of flight, filed either by telephone prior to take-off or by radiotelephony (RTF) when airborne


Whatever your definition of a Flight Plan, Cardiff are not currently accepting c).


They have clearly invented a fourth type of flight plan.

How can you file an abbreviated flight plan electronically? The definition above clearly implies it is a verbal flight plan transmitted over a telephone or radio telephony.

If we are to be really pedantic we could call them up on either a mobile or the radio and tell them our abbreviated flight plan, pointing out that we are complying with the definition of an abbreviated flight plan and Cardiff’s request as the mobile phone or the modern aircraft radio are both electronic devices.
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By ozplane
#1852128
Apologies for the late reply Dave W, but the way it was written in the AOPA mag is that if you go for a half hour "bimble" from your unmanned farm strip, you will need to file a flight plan. Surely this can't be correct?
#1852132
Bristol’s booking out procedure is similar to that at Cardiff. AFPEx (or similar ‘app’ based action e.g. SD, FF, Autorouter etc) is used to fulfill the booking out requirement. The FPL is only normally only addressed to the tower.

It reduces the workload in the tower as a strip is printed as opposed to having to write one out by hand, I believe.
By chevvron
#1852145
neilld wrote:Apparently it's to do with the change to electronic progresss strips whereby the flight details appear as if by magic in the conroller's screen without any input from ATC.
Interestingly, flights from StAthan (3 miles down the road from Cardiff) which have to transit Cardiff airspace to get in or out don't (yet) have to file flight plans.
Can only assume that the StAthan controllers are doing the front end stuff.

St Athan controllers are NATS, probably do Cardiff in their spare time. :wink:
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By chevvron
#1852146
ozplane wrote:Just noticed a comment in Martin Robinson's notes in the latest AOPA mag to the effect "there is even talk of a future need for VFR flights to file flight plans". Do the assembled gathering know anything about this as it has escaped me.

Something to do with the creation of blanket Class E airspace from 500ft agl upwards over the whole of the UK?





Yes I am joking (or am I?) :twisted:
By rdfb
#1852165
Lots of resistance to filing flight plans here. I'd like to offer a different perspective.

It's really frustrating to have to deal with multiple systems for what is essentially the same thing. For most flights, I have to:

  • Book out, either through some web form or by calling some number, the details of which depend on where I am. So I have to look it up, get frustrated with a web form that doesn't work from an iPad, etc. And I have to type in most of the same details over and over again (email address, phone number, my name, callsign etc).
  • Get PPR from my destination, either through some web form or by calling some number, the details of which depend on where I am. So I have to look it up, get frustrated with a web form that doesn't work from an iPad, etc. And I have to type in most of the same details over and over again (email address, phone number, my name, callsign etc).
  • Give every controller of some controlled airspace in my way my life story, wait for them to get it all down, by which time I'm on top of them in some cases.
  • Wait for PPR to be accepted (if filed digitally).

If only there were a single unified system for getting my details to everyone who wants to know. Well, there is - it's the flight plan system.

I appreciate it's a pain to learn/use yet another system if you don't do this already (I certainly don't). But it's the right way forward because if everyone did it then pilot admin would be massively reduced.

So I'm in favour of:

  • Booking out being done by a flight plan.
  • Requesting PPR being done by a flight plan.
  • (not sure how to integrate "PPR accepted" into this, but that'd be a minor issue if everyone did everything else)
  • Controllers of controlled airspace en-route paying attention to flight plans and being ready with a strip, or whatever, so I didn't need to give each of them my life story.

Because then there's only one thing I'd need to do, instead of four.

We can only get there one step at a time. I welcome any one step, because it's heading in the right direction.
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By Dave W
#1852168
Well, yes. I turn up to Tesco much like that - as does everybody else. I don't book a slot in their carpark or onto the A36.

It's not that different; we're not that special*.


*Well, obviously we are, but YKWIM.... ;)
terryws, Rob L, JAFO and 1 others liked this
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By James Chan
#1852170
rdfb - you speak too much sense, and is something I've been going on about for the past 15 or so years.

What other GA-mature country requires so many bookings-outs and bookings-in here and there, and pass-your-message everywhere....
Last edited by James Chan on Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.