Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
By ozplane
#1851987
Just noticed a comment in Martin Robinson's notes in the latest AOPA mag to the effect "there is even talk of a future need for VFR flights to file flight plans". Do the assembled gathering know anything about this as it has escaped me.
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By MikeB
#1851995
Rob L wrote:The very act of "booking out" for a VFR flight is a VFR flight plan.
No need to "file" one with an external agency.


Not currently so for flights into/from Cardiff (or transmitting their CTA/CTR). Formal flight plans currently mandatory :roll:
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By Rob L
#1851999
MikeB wrote:
Rob L wrote:The very act of "booking out" for a VFR flight is a VFR flight plan.
No need to "file" one with an external agency.


Not currently so for flights into/from Cardiff (or transmitting their CTA/CTR). Formal flight plans currently mandatory :roll:


Really? Mandatory filed VFR flight plans are not required for VFR flights. shirley? Sometimes they are recommended (over hostile terrain for example).

If I take off from from my welsh private strip (or even from Cardiff) for a local VFR flight; am I obliged to file a flight plan with Brussels?

MikeB wrote:[transmitting]
transiting? :D
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By xtophe
#1852001
Rob L wrote:If I take off from from my welsh private strip (or even from Cardiff) for a local VFR flight; am I obliged to file a flight plan with Brussels?


If you take-off from Cardiff, I'm sure you'll check the NOTAMS for Cardiff and you'll see
Code: Select allALL DEPARTING AIRCRAFT ARE REQUIRED TO FILE A FULL OR ABBREVIATED
FLIGHT PLAN ELECTRONICALLY PRIOR TO DEPARTURE. THE ADDRESSES SHOULD
BE AS PER ENR 1.11.


As it is only a VFR flightplan, it won't go to Eurocontrol.
By neilld
#1852003
Apparently it's to do with the change to electronic progresss strips whereby the flight details appear as if by magic in the conroller's screen without any input from ATC.
Interestingly, flights from StAthan (3 miles down the road from Cardiff) which have to transit Cardiff airspace to get in or out don't (yet) have to file flight plans.
Can only assume that the StAthan controllers are doing the front end stuff.
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By MikeB
#1852009
Though its not said in the NOTAM, the Cardiff controllers also want the desired standard Cardiff VFR entry/exit routing to be added as a RMK on the flightplan (previously they just asked when you phoned the tower to book out).

Another current gotcha for Cardiff is both Tower and Approach frequencies have changed - promulgated by NOTAM and not yet made it into the AIRAC cycles (hence the Skydemon Plog, airfield info etc still lists old frequencies)
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By leiafee
#1852010
Shuttling back and forth from Swansea for fuel we’d been given to understand it was something to do with having reduced staffing over the covid-era - I suppose if it automatically pops up on their screen if filed electronically it frees someone from taking it down over the phone.

Could just be tittletattle trying to account for it mind you!

In any case my SkyDemon filed one failed to reach them on at least one recent occasion resulting in my twiddling my thumbs on the deck for several minutes.

It’s a chore and I thoroughly hope it does not become routine.
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By Rob L
#1852013
xtophe wrote:
Rob L wrote:If I take off from from my welsh private strip (or even from Cardiff) for a local VFR flight; am I obliged to file a flight plan with Brussels?


If you take-off from Cardiff, I'm sure you'll check the NOTAMS for Cardiff and you'll see
Code: Select allALL DEPARTING AIRCRAFT ARE REQUIRED TO FILE ..... ABBREVIATED
FLIGHT PLAN ELECTRONICALLY PRIOR TO DEPARTURE. THE ADDRESSES SHOULD
BE AS PER ENR 1.11.


As it is only a VFR flightplan, it won't go to Eurocontrol.


That's the same as "booking out" .
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By MikeB
#1852015
Rob L wrote:That's the same as "booking out" .


Sadly not - the FP's are to be filed "electronically". Depending on which controller is on, you may get short shrift if you phone to book out (they no longer have an Tower assistant to handle phone calls and the book in/out process) or call the approach controller for a transit without a filed FP
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By Rob L
#1852017
Mike:

If it doesn't go via Eurocontrol then it's not a "flight plan" in the accepted sense; this must just be a local electronic over-control quirk/freak that Cardiff have?

Rob
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By Iceman
#1852018
VFR flight plans have never gone via EuroControl to my knowledge. They are just disseminated via AFTN in accordance with VFR addressing rules, VFR flight plans not including the IFR addresses that would be required to route them via EuroControl.

Iceman 8)
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By GrahamB
#1852023
Rob L wrote:Mike:

If it doesn't go via Eurocontrol then it's not a "flight plan" in the accepted sense; this must just be a local electronic over-control quirk/freak that Cardiff have?

According to CAP694:
1.2 There are three categories of FPL:

a) Full Flight Plans - the information filed on the FPL Form (CA48/RAF F2919);
b) Repetitive Flight Plans (see Chapter 4); and
c) Abbreviated Flight Plans - the limited information required to obtain a clearance for a portion of flight, filed either by telephone prior to take-off or by radiotelephony (RTF) when airborne


Whatever your definition of a Flight Plan, Cardiff are not currently accepting c).
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#1852028
MikeB wrote:
Rob L wrote:The very act of "booking out" for a VFR flight is a VFR flight plan.
No need to "file" one with an external agency.


Not currently so for flights into/from Cardiff (or transmitting their CTA/CTR). Formal flight plans currently mandatory :roll:


To get to North Devon heading south from the Midlands I have previously done a transit via Cardiff Docks VRP-Minehead VRP. Are you really saying that this now requires some sort of flight plan?