Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By GrahamB
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1852609
Aerials wrote:Having never filed a Flight Plan, VFR or otherwise I have a very sketchy knowledge of the system. The thought occurred to me that perhaps it might be most helpful for Pre-Note(ing) those places that request you do so.

I think, in current cirumstances, it’s the worst possible way to pre-notify someone of your pending arrival unless they have specifically requested it:

- It relies on the other end having access to Flight Plans. NATS shot themselves in the foot by wihdrawing free access to the abortion that is AFPEx to all but casual users some time ago.

- Assuming the above is solved, it relies on someone at the other end to constantly monitor that facility.

- It doesn't allow the other end to ask questions or provide additional info, like 'Will you be requiring fuel?', 'Are you with the other Grummans that are arriving about the same time, if so I'll keep a bit of the parking area free for you?', 'You do realise our cafe is closed today, don't you?', 'Do you have details of the noise abatement circuit in use today?' etc etc.

Having said that we are looking down the telescope at the wrong end. Like Hi-Vis jackets, it has a small, small place in the GA domain, but it's become a spreading disease that just adds faff and does bugger-all good most of the time. A case in point was a flight I made yesterday to a Midlands airfield. I phoned for PPR and spoke to someone obviously in an office. I was provided with the runway in use and the QFE/QNH, and advised that the A/G was in use today so I'd get that from them anyway. When I called on the radio inbound, the person manning A/G was obviously not in the office, nor had any clue that I was on my way to visit, so what was the point?
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By muffin
FLYER Club Member (reader)  FLYER Club Member (reader)
#1852639
A case in point was a flight I made yesterday to a Midlands airfield. I phoned for PPR and spoke to someone obviously in an office. I was provided with the runway in use and the QFE/QNH, and advised that the A/G was in use today so I'd get that from them anyway. When I called on the radio inbound, the person manning A/G was obviously not in the office, nor had any clue that I was on my way to visit, so what was the point?


I think that may be the field at which I provide A/G occasionally. There is no dialogue between office and tower whatsoever so PPR is an unnecessary waste of time IMHO.
By G-JWTP
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1852664
Rob P wrote:Well I have never come across the requirement for a VFR flight plan for an internal UK flight in thirty years, so I am guessing the list is Cardiff, Cardiff and Cardiff?

Rob P


In saying that we did have that NATS portal thing for zone transits in the London area.
Quickly abandoned due to covid. But the precedent has been set, so look out, if and when life gets a bit more normalised.

G-JWTP

:D
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By GrahamB
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1852668
Rob P wrote:Well I have never come across the requirement for a VFR flight plan for an internal UK flight in thirty years, so I am guessing the list is Cardiff, Cardiff and Cardiff?

Rob P

You didn’t fly into the London area during the 2012 Olympics, then?
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By James Chan
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1852686
Slightly surprised at why people give the QNH and runway in use on telephone calls where an ATSU exists.

The wind and runway could have swung round and the QNH changed by the time you arrive.
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By Rob P
#1852688
It's because they can't think of any other justification for insisting on PPR

Rob P
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By Dave W
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1852693
I can't say it bothers me much (passing the runway/wind on a phone call)*; most often it doesn't likely change that much and it allows anticipation when planning the flight.

If they have changed on arrival, well no problem: I'm now in the position I otherwise would have been anyway. If they haven't changed, then I am very slightly ahead of the game.


*Pointless insistence on PPR at airfields run as businesses "because we must"; now that bothers me.
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By Aerials
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1852701
GrahamB wrote:
Aerials wrote:Having never filed a Flight Plan, VFR or otherwise I have a very sketchy knowledge of the system. The thought occurred to me that perhaps it might be most helpful for Pre-Note(ing) those places that request you do so.

I think, in current cirumstances, it’s the worst possible way to pre-notify someone of your pending arrival unless they have specifically requested it:


Thanks for your views on my (rather vague) idea. What I should've said was if you intend crossing huge blocks of controlled airspace on your route, then perhaps a VFR FP could be useful for Pre-Note(ing) those airspace controllers, rather than as a Pre-Note for the destination.
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By GrahamB
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1852704
@Aerials You already do this when you call up for transit. It’s called an Abbreviated Flight Plan. Much less faff than having to file a full one.
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By rdfb
#1852715
skydriller wrote:Except in the UK, a VFR flight plan doesnt get seen by hardly anyone, doesnt automaticly get you access to airspace, or actually do any of the things you want....


You're completely missing my point. I'm talking about an optimistic ideal to reduce admin, with VFR flight plans being the most common route to get there because it's closest to what we have already. I'm not providing instructions for pilots today. You seem to be telling me why, today, what I'm suggesting doesn't work. I am aware - but that wasn't my point.

skydriller wrote:And most importantly, if you do file one and disappear, no-one will come to look for you... so...


I'm not sure why you care about this, or how it's relevant to my point. In any case, how is the current PPR system any better for SAR?
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By skydriller
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1852717
rdfb wrote:
skydriller wrote:
And most importantly, if you do file one and disappear, no-one will come to look for you... so...

I'm not sure why you care about this, or how it's relevant to my point. In any case, how is the current PPR system any better for SAR?


It may not matter if you are flying from Denham to Barton in the heavily populated UK... But in other parts of the world its nice to know someone might look for you if you dont turn up when you are supposed to...

My own view is that aerodromes in the AIP should not be PPR as everything you need to know to fly there should be in the AIP, and any changes should be NOTAMed.

And I still cant see how filing a flightplan is less admin...

Regards, SD..
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By MikeB
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1852718
Paul_Sengupta wrote:
MikeB wrote:ISTR St Marys (Scilly Isles) have always required FPs, in addition to PPR :roll:


Never heard this before. I've never sent one and I've never been told off!


From the AIP:
1 AIRPORT REGULATIONS

Flight Plans should be filed for all flights to and from Scilly Isles/St Mary's aerodrome.