Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
By trr13
#1851808
Hello!
I'm planning a flight to Sandtoft and wondered if anyone could offer any advice.. their ATZ lies partly within the Doncaster CTR so I'm wondering if I'll need a clearance from Doncaster before changing to Sandtoft? And the same when leaving, if taking off into Doncaster's airspace? Or if inside Sandtoft's ATZ is a clearance not required?

I'll be arriving from the north, underneath the CTR, and I'll be entering the ATZ where it's Class G airspace, but the SW half is class D.

I've looked everywhere I can think to find info, but there isn't much help.. It's probably much simpler than I'm imagining but I just want to make sure, so any advice would be appreciated.
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By Dave W
#1851811
Annoyingly the web-based AIP entry for Sandtoft is currently unavailable, but if you have SkyDemon you can download the UK AIP and then see it from within the App.

The textual data should help you: "All Sandtoft departures and arrivals are to contact Doncaster Radar on frequency 126.225 for clearance through the Doncaster Sheffield CTR/CTA." (EGCF AD2.20 para. 4).

The Pooley's plate (if you have access to that) is more informative than the AIP, in that it gives you circuit directions! (LH on 05/RH on 23)
By trr13
#1851816
Thanks Dave, I tried to look at the AIP but didn't think to look through SkyDemon.

When departing and still within the Sandtoft ATZ, in the circuit, for example, I assume I wouldn't need a clearance into the Class D which the ATZ overlaps?

I've never landed in (or on boundary of) a CTR before so just want to be sure.
By Shoestring Flyer
#1851821
It is no problem flying in and out of Sandtoft but you must obviously get clearance to enter Doncaster Class D Airspace both inbound and outbound.
Inbound, in my case it is usually from the south, with 3-5 miles to run either request a change to Sandtoft Radio if you are visual or sometimes they may tell you to change earlier if they are not busy.
When leaving you must stay within the Sandtoft ATZ until you have clearance to enter Doncasters Class D airspace! If you can't get in on the radio immediately after takeoff just do a circuit until you contact is made. You must have that clearance before you go in to Doncaster Class D!
Last edited by Shoestring Flyer on Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By FlightDek
#1851822
The AIP entry is contadictory

1 AIRPORT REGULATIONS
a) Visiting pilots to wear high visibility clothing and follow procedure when crossing runway from Hold E to control.
b) Transponder equipped aircraft operating in the circuit to squawk the VFR aerodrome traffic pattern conspicuity code (7010).
c) Inbound/Outbound aircraft not in contact with Doncaster Radar are to monitor the Doncaster Radar frequency and squawk the listening
code (6170).


and

[quote]4 WARNINGS
a) Aerodrome is on the boundary of the Doncaster Sheffield CTR and beneath Class D CTAs (bases 1500 FT AMSL and 2000 FT AMSL).
All Sandtoft arrivals and departures are to contact Doncaster Radar on frequency 126.225 MHz for clearance through the Doncaster
Sheffield CTR/CTA.
[quote/]

My bold. Which is it? Do you need a clearance or can you use the listening squawk?
By TopCat
#1851836
I went to Sandtoft on Saturday, as it happens.

From the south, I got a clearance via the Doncaster overhead, asked for a frequency change before I got to the ATZ which they gave me, and told me to keep the squawk.

Departing, I climbed out downwind (they were on 23 RH), remaining OCAS by staying below 1500'. Once I was out of the ATZ to the north, I called Doncaster again and they cleared me back through the overhead in my climbing turn south. Apparently they like you to stay below 1500' even within the ATZ on departure. Overhead join was at 1500' for circuit at 1000'.

I realise you're approaching from the north, but inbound if you get a Doncaster squawk they'll see you till you land, and outbound it'll be the same as for me, just without the southbound turn.

They certainly weren't upset by me being briefly in the southern bit of the ATZ where the CTR starts at the surface.

They were very nice, no drama at all.

Thought it was a bit odd that the cafe shut as early as 2pm at the weekend, but I was just in time for a tea and a Twix.
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By Iceman
#1851840
Departing 23, it looks like you must be very careful not to infringe the CTR by being able to turn crosswind before the end of the runway by the look of it ?

Iceman 8)
By TopCat
#1851843
Iceman wrote:Departing 23, it looks like you must be very careful not to infringe the CTR by being able to turn crosswind before the end of the runway by the look of it ?

Well I didn't turn that early, and they didn't show any evidence of being bothered when I called them.

I can't see, in practice, how they could ever require that. I mean, there's a flying school there - they'd never teach people to fly with a turn that early.

This was my track...

Image

I guess there's still time for me to get a letter... :pale:
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By trr13
#1851850
TopCat wrote:They certainly weren't upset by me being briefly in the southern bit of the ATZ where the CTR starts at the surface.

Thank you for the advice, very helpful. This is what I was concerned about, but I agree.. they surely can't expect you to keep out of that part of the zone when in the circuit.
By TopCat
#1851855
Iceman wrote:I would have thought that a left hand turn out would provide better deconfliction with Doncaster inbounds.

It would, but a climbing turn left downwind on 23 would then be in conflict with deadside Sandtoft inbounds for 23 RH.

I'd bet that the Doncaster inbounds are going to be more accurately on the localiser than the rather random nature of people's 'overhead' calls.
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