Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
#1852981
SteveX wrote:Transit over fields and/or two big runways at eg 2000ish versus over Warrington and built up areas at 1250. The former is my preference for views, safety, TAS and above all its probably direct!!

I listened to a helicopter pilot infringing the corridor by 100’ using the excuse she didn’t want to fly low over the built up area.
Perhaps if Steve X spent more time in the corridor instead of getting those transits he’d know that the east side leaves you in glide clear range from every built up area.
By Lefty
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1853051
I’ve used the LLC many dozens of times, but I prefer to stay higher if I can.

In anything heavy (eg Cherokee 6 / Saratoga), if you had an engine issue, you are into a 1600-1800fpm descent rate.

There are places in the LL corridor where you only have 7-800ft above the ground. That’s around 30-40 seconds glide time. :(
#1853060
You know your aircraft better than I, but with a heavy aircraft travelling at 140 kts wouldn't you be able to convert inertia to height and use that to extend your time to reach the deck?

Rob P
By Lefty
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1853065
Rob P wrote:You know your aircraft better than I, but with a heavy aircraft travelling at 140 kts wouldn't you be able to convert inertia to height and use that to extend your time to reach the deck?

Rob P


You are right of course, but (a) if you climbed into controlled airspace you just might meet a Manchester / Liverpool arrival, (b) it is a very draggy airframe so it wouldn’t increase your remaining flying time all that much, perhaps another 60 seconds or so. I’ll do a test on Friday when I next fly.
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#1853067
If at the very instant your aircraft suffers a total engine failure a climb of a few hundred feet means you impale a passing EasyJet, it really was your day to die. :)

Rob P
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By Dave W
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1853076
Quite so. If I had an engine failure in the LLR then I would not hesitate for an instant to convert speed to height and if necessary enter CAS. It's a no-brainer and the actual increase in risk over the tiny time period involved is trivial.
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#1853091
I guess this is why you need to be on the Manchester frequency now.
On one occasion a couple of years ago when the moors were on fire, I went IMC in the corridor with smoke and was climbed to 2400’ with no problems.
#1853107
TLRippon wrote:
SteveX wrote:Transit over fields and/or two big runways at eg 2000ish versus over Warrington and built up areas at 1250. The former is my preference for views, safety, TAS and above all its probably direct!!

I listened to a helicopter pilot infringing the corridor by 100’ using the excuse she didn’t want to fly low over the built up area.
Perhaps if Steve X spent more time in the corridor instead of getting those transits he’d know that the east side leaves you in glide clear range from every built up area.


Each to their own bizarre choice of how we fly! 1250ft no service, 2500ft with radar service...................
#1853116
CloudHound wrote:Yep, the Reds went under me opposite direction once.

I also had the old Air Hong Kong 741F opposite direction as it struggled to climb on an hot day HON 1 departure.


ISTR on one of my earliest AEF Chipmunk flights as an Air Cadet out of RAF White Waltham [sic], early '60s, seeing a PanAm B707 climbing out of LHR Westbound below us, and we were at ~3000' in the then equivalent of Class G there. Pilot explained that they (presumably the early, JT3 ?, series) had a poor rate of climb when heavy anyway, and he suspected that US pilots stayed deliberately unneccessarily low after departure to give US passengers a better view of Windsor Castle :wink:
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By Rob P
#1853140
Maybe @Tim Dawson could mark it and a couple of suggested approaches in SD for us?

Rob P
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By CloudHound
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1853629
Rumour circulating at Barton that MAN/NATS are saying if you land at a strip in the LLC and switch off your transponder that’s an infringement.

I thought it a bit strange and probably wrong. But now Lancs Aero Club have put this out.
Dear Members and Visitors,

The reclassification of the Low Level Route to Class D has meant some changes to Kenyon Hall operations are needed in order to prevent inadvertent infringements.

After discussion with Manchester ATC we have agreed the following procedures:

Approach to Kenyon Hall Airfield

Monitor the Manchester Approach frequency and squawk 7366. Overhead the airfield descend to circuit altitude (800 ft on Manchester QNH) and make a blind call on Safetycom 135.480 MHz. Remain on Safetycom for downwind and final, still squawking 7366

Departure from Kenyon Hall Airfield

While on the ground make a blind call on Safetycom then as soon as is practical change to Manchester Approach frequency and squawk 7366.

Kind regards,
Lancashire Aero Club
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By Dave W
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1853645
The rumour, if accurate, would be very strange on 2 or 3 levels!

This, though:
LAC wrote: The reclassification of the Low Level Route to Class D...

The LLR has always been Class D or equivalent, hasn't it? It wasn't Class G, as has been discussed here on several occasions.