Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
#1850667
mpk wrote:About time UK had this, works like this in SA for eg. So if not in receipt of a LARS this should be the default I think for position reporting to make others aware.


If it was, this frequency would be a treasure trove of comedy gold on a VFR summer Sunday

A/C: "Golf BlahBlah Blah, more blah, five miles west of Newport"

Everyone else: "Which sodding Newport?"

Etc

Rob P
Flyin'Dutch', gaznav liked this
#1850759
I find myself wondering almost daily now with every 'new' initiative they bring out if there is anyone at the CAA who has ever flown a light aircraft at all?
If it so happens that there is just one, muddled thinking soul working there who has , they certainly haven't flown one recently in the busy crowded southern England skies when they had the light bulb inspiration to dream up this idea?
Stampe, bilko2 liked this
#1850760
Well, I never knew the military were on their own UHF frequency until now! A small step in the right direction - but surely the end goal must be to try and keep everyone on the same frequency in the same defined volume of airspace as much as possible and put an end to overlapping FIS. This hasn't changed in decades.
#1850769
Not sure it would have helped in this incident: civilian helicopter vs 4 F35s, former 'under' Norfolk (Basic or Traffic Service in Class G ?) and latter 'under' Marham (presumably on UHF), unless both had been using this new RF instead. BBC gist of Airprox Board report:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-57287432
#1850779
I am confused how this is supposed to work in practice.

Take for example a winters day with a fresh Westerly wind, maybe 20-30 gliders could be ridge soaring the Cotswold Edge south as far as Bath and up to Broadway in the North.... each spending 2-3 hrs below 2000 ft. Do we just put one call out "ridge soaring in progress", each call every 10 mins, 20 mins etc, or just listen out for a military a/c to call? Also what about crossing Cheltenham - assume still change to Gloucester ?

Needs a bit more guidance I think.... On the same frequency, in range, you'll also get calls from Black Mountains, Long Mynd etc etc. - good luck getting a word in!
#1850782
kanga wrote:Not sure it would have helped in this incident: civilian helicopter vs 4 F35s, former 'under' Norfolk (Basic or Traffic Service in Class G ?) and latter 'under' Marham (presumably on UHF), unless both had been using this new RF instead. BBC gist of Airprox Board report:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-57287432



Airprox Board gist of the Airprox Board report: https://www.airproxboard.org.uk/uploade ... 021008.pdf

Where all your questions are answered.
#1850834
This system (Low Level Common) has worked very well for the military for years to aid situational awareness. If you’re flying during the week and get the chance, have a listen and hear how it’s being used. I’d argue for the vast majority of GA it is over kill, however it may be of use to, for instance, a pipeline or electricity helicopter operating at 100ft in a know busy military operating area. Likewise, if you’re about to descend to approach a minor airstrip, would it hurt to put out a brief intentions call before switching to SafetyCom?

At the end of the day it’s a trial with all the right intentions, let’s give it a go and provide feedback. If it’s rubbish, it’ll get binned! :thumleft:
kanga, townleyc liked this
#1850835
@3EngineFreak, is there anything available online/publicly that explains good practice (phraseology, methodology...) for how the military have efficiently used LL Common?

If there is something, it would potentially be very helpful for GA, in addition to publicising the availability of a VHF frequency.
#1850836
Hi Dave, the ‘Blind call content’ from the CAA leaflet is pretty much what is in our documentation too.

When we cross Low Fly Area boundaries, we would transmit for instance “LFA1, Callsign, single helicopter entering at Westbury enroute to Salisbury Plain at 100ft, LFA1”. This clearly lets everyone in LFA1 know that we’re about and if they’re in the vicinity of Westbury or on the predicted route to keep an extra lookout. If they’re not in LFA1 or near Westbury it can be discarded. If a GA pilot hears this, whilst they won’t know where LFA1 is, they will know where the geographic points are so it’s still of some use (notwithstanding the probable vertical separation in this scenario!)

For a GA application, if you were about to descend into Knettishall (even 5miles out) you could transmit “G-AB, C150 approaching Knettishall 5 miles from the South descending 2000ft to 500ft”. Just this short transmission, listen for another 30 seconds for a reply then switch to SafetyCom. It could even be used while you’re on the ground prior to takeoff (before switching back to SafetyCom) to alert any approaching Apaches at zero ft that you’re about to meet them face to face.

It’s not a hugely onerous task and has the potential to increase SA for you and others. It absolutely works for the military and has aided me many times.

It’s worth the trial in my opinion, whether or not it stays around is a different question!
Rob P, kanga liked this
#1850837
Maybe one day someone will come up with a brilliant idea, a sort of eye in the sky, which can see all aeroplanes and we'll have a person sitting in a room and everyone flying in a particular area can speak to that person and be told if someone comes near someone else, later on we could have some enhancements whereby aeroplanes can see each other with messages going between the aeroplanes just in case the person watching the aeroplane has a cuppa or needs a pee.

Do you folks think that may be a goer?

:shock: