Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By Ibra
#1849606
James Chan wrote:However due to the nature of aircraft, (corporate) ownership structures, and international travel capability - for practical purposes it would be harder to implement and enforce if plane and pilot spends an almost equal time in one country as with another.....


Yes I had the same impression boats & aircraft can travel internationally more than cars? there are few exceptions like driving UK to Spain, but that is/was like domestic driving IMO

The only requirement to import an aircraft is to pay VAT for free circulation past 6 months of stay (18 months for boats as they are slow), for pilots oversight & accountability it seems we are going toward everybody having their dual papers

But change of aircraft reg just seems unessary, I am not sure what it will offer as extra? maybe it helps to police those who get flashed clocking 80mph in front of road speed cameras? :lol:
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By G-BLEW
Boss Man  Boss Man
#1849615
Just been reading another CAA exemption, this one relating to landing at open air gatherings of more than 1,000 people.

Point 5 of that exemption reads

5) This exemption has effect from the date it is signed until it is revoked.


Now why wouldn't that have been the last line used in the FAA ORS4? Yes I have asked, and have not heard back yet (although I know it's being worked on…)

Ian

Ian
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By 2Donkeys
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1849622
G-BLEW wrote:Now why wouldn't that have been the last line used in the FAA ORS4? Yes I have asked, and have not heard back yet (although I know it's being worked on…)

Ian

Ian


That question, I think, is easily answered. It was always (at least for a very long time now) going to be the case that FAA licence holders were going to be compelled to convert to CAA. The issue was the onerous and/or poorly defined route for such a conversion. That conversion path was supposed to be addressed by a BASA agreement. The exemption was therefore a rolling one because BASA was always just over the horizon. Now, finally, time is up and the exemption lasts until 22 Dec 2021 because the CAA thinks that the conversion route is now established (absent a BASA) and that December gives us enough time to get on with converting.

The bigger question is Why. Why should it be policy to force licence conversion? To me, it is the DfT protecting a failed regulator in the form of the CAA. The CAA needs protecting against pilots voting with their feet and fleeing to a regulator and system that is unchanging and logical, in the face of the sh1tshow that is CAA to JAA to EASA to CAA with all its associated fees, unclear rules, non-functioning internet portal and a host of other nonsense.
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By G-JWTP
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1849634
G-BLEW wrote:Just been reading another CAA exemption, this one relating to landing at open air gatherings of more than 1,000 people.

Point 5 of that exemption reads

5) This exemption has effect from the date it is signed until it is revoked.


Now why wouldn't that have been the last line used in the FAA ORS4? Yes I have asked, and have not heard back yet (although I know it's being worked on…)

Ian

Ian


I'm sure it's some sort of leagalese that means a simple one liner wont do but,
really, a one liner will do and generally it's all it takes.

After all they legalised everything that the Security Service (MI5) had done prior to the Security Service Act in one line.

G-JWTP
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By Sir Morley Steven
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1850761
So let’s say I work for American Airlines on my FAA licence flying the route to LHR and I marry a nice English girl and move to blighty.
On 23 December I am no longer allowed to fly the route but can fly anywhere else on the planet? (Apart from North Korea perhaps)
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By vahgatsi
#1854399
I have just read all of this topic including Ian’s posting of the CAA answer to his question (as quoted below) and I am still left wondering whether this is all in the context of SRG2140, which was specifically about allowing a FAA licensed pilot, like myself, to fly G-ref aircraft in U.K. airspace day VFR only. It was not about flying a N-reg aircraft in the U.K. with a FAA licence (in my case a non-piggybacked FAA MULTI CPL/IR).
I have missed where the CAA says that the extension from June applies not only to flying G-reg on a FAA license but to flying N-reg as well.
If the latter is the case, then I’m just, naively, going carry on in the hope that by December they will change their minds.


G-BLEW wrote:Here is the CAA reply to my question, which sort of answers the question by interpretation.

Article 12(4) of UK Regulation (EU) No 1178/2011 (the UK Aircrew Regulation), no longer legally applies. This has to date, provided the legal means to apply a derogation against Article 2(1)(b), (i) or (ii), of UK Regulation (EU) 2018/1139, which has been used by the CAA to permit FAA licence holders who only fly for pleasure, to fly in UK airspace without the need of converting or validating or their licence. As of midnight, on 20 June 2021 this option expires.

The exemption was published today to give those affected more time to take action. This issue affects all FAA Licence holders who permanently reside in the UK.

It is important to note that a permanent resident of either the UK or an EU member state that flies using an FAA Licence will now have to either apply for a UK Part-FCL licence or a Short-term validation certificate (up to 12 months) (if resident in UK) or an EASA Licence (if resident in EU member state). Whether the pilot is permanently based in the UK or the EU, action now needs to be taken.
By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1854409
I don't really understand how EASA or the CAA can require an FAA pilot in an FAA aeroplane to have a UK or EASA licence wherever he/she lives.

However I think the UK situation might have become a bigger mess because EASA now has a BASA with the FAA but, courtesy of Brexit, it doesn't apply to the UK. So we're effectively operating under EASA rules (cut and pasted into UK law) but with no FAA BASA so the conversion process from FAA to EASA licence isn't there.

The original motivation was to have all pilots resident in the EU operating under EASA oversight and using EASA training facilities even if flying N reg I believe.
Last edited by johnm on Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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By GrahamB
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1854410
johnm wrote:I don't really understand how EASA or the CAA can require an FAA pilot in an FAA aeroplane to have a UK or EASA licence wherever he/she lives.

It's quite easy. You create a regulation that says they must!
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By GrahamB
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1854412
johnm wrote:@GrahamB I've expanded my post a bit.......

I haven't looked at the details of the EASA/FAA BASA as I hold both licences anyway, but wasn't it regarded as a bit of a damp squib, i.e. not much of an alleviation as regards licensing?
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By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1854413
GrahamB wrote:I haven't looked at the details of the EASA/FAA BASA as I hold both licences anyway, but wasn't it regarded as a bit of a damp squib, i.e. not much of an alleviation as regards licensing?


I'm not entirely sure, but the impression was of a paperwork exercise and then the equivalent of an EASA revalidation. In our case as there's no BASA it seems that we have a more complicated scenario, but I don't know the details and as I'm fully EASA I'm not going to find out. I had a 61.75 FAA licence but it got nicked and I've never bothered to replace it.
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By GrahamB
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1854435
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:May I suggest that the managemenf of licences for third country licencees in the UK since 31/12/20 has nowt to do with the EU or EASA.

Well, it does in the sense that it’s an EU regulation which the UK has adopted, but AIUI the UK DfT had this on the radar before EASA and dropped pursuing it solo once EASA got their teeth into it.
By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1854438
May I suggest that the managemenf of licences for third country licencees in the UK since 31/12/20 has nowt to do with the EU or EASA.


As @GrahamB points out we're operating under a snapshot of EASA regulations parts of which we can't change without primary legislation which implies time on the Parliamentary agenda and work in DfT.

Like everything to do with Brexit, the practicalities weren't really considered until after we left because the transition period was simply too short to design and implement systems to cope, so we're firefighting and bodging all over the place and will be for some years to come.
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