Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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User avatar
By jakob1427
#1848925
The CAA have today finally updated their webpage about the recognition of FAA certificate holders permanently residing in the UK. As the deadline for the deceleration expiry (20th June) was fast approaching.

The key point in the document ORS4 1490 is that this declaration expiry deadline has been pushed back to 21st Dec 2021.

However, one thing that caught my eye was the Explanatory Note at the bottom of page 2:

"With effect of 22 December 2021 FAA Airmen Certificate holders who permanently reside within the UK, cannot operate on the basis of such a certificate within United Kingdom airspace, such certificate holder must convert to a lifetime UK Part-FCL licence, or apply for a 12 months validation certificate
(renewable only once), should they want to continue operating in UK airspace. There will be no further alleviations provided unless the conditions for such an alleviation in article 71(1) of the retained Basic Regulation apply."


On the original webpage the CAA have also provided a "helpful" table to give a guide of requirements and costs to convert to a UK Part FCL Licence and a UK Validation Certificate (with the latter surprisingly costing almost twice as much as the former (£196 vs. £326) whilst only being valid 12 months and renewable only once!)

Does this seem to spell the beginning of the end for FAA licence holders flying in the UK??
I was hoping it would go the other way, and with the CAAs decidedly new-found freedom they would encourage FAA licence holders to fly in the UK just as the FAA has a simple and encouraging process to let EASA pilots fly in the US... It seems the CAA has chosen the opposite of encouragement.
User avatar
By James Chan
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1848928
My simple mind says flying should mostly align with the way motoring is being done - Where is the plane or car registered and serviced? Where is the pilot or driver resident?

I think there's a requirement for foreign cars and drivers to re-register in the UK if they've been here long enough, so I think the same should apply with aircraft.

However due to the nature of aircraft, (corporate) ownership structures, and international travel capability - for practical purposes it would be harder to implement and enforce if plane and pilot spends an almost equal time in one country as with another.....
Last edited by James Chan on Mon May 24, 2021 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By Flyin'Dutch'
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1848933
James Chan wrote:I think there's a requirement for foreign cars and drivers to re-register in the UK if they've been here long enough.


Only since 1/1/21 - not before

James Chan wrote: so I think the same should apply with aircraft.


Why? What is the rational?
User avatar
By James Chan
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1848936
Why? What is the rational?


One is for simplification and another is for safety - I would have thought to have something registered in the country where the majority of flights are based means there would be a clear route for training and legal route for accountability.

Let's say if pilot and plane was validated, registered and maintained to South Sudan standards, but resident and flown over 90% of the time in the UK. Then something goes wrong (pilot or plane) and injury occurs to people and damage to property. What mechanisms are there to ensure pilot training and engineering would be up to standards in future?
#1848942
James Chan wrote:
Why? What is the rational?

Let's say if pilot and plane was validated, registered and maintained to South Sudan standards, but resident and flown over 90% of the time in the UK. Then something goes wrong (pilot or plane) and injury occurs to people and damage to property. What mechanisms are there to ensure pilot training and engineering would be up to standards in future?


I think your example is a little backwards. In terms of demonstrated competence for regulating GA, the UK would be equivalent to South Sudan in this example. The FAA is a clearly superior system, so what would be the benefit in trying to move away from it?
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By Flyin'Dutch'
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1848943
MultiMagic wrote:Call me cynical, but I also read that to mean-
"if you bust our airspace we dont have the power to remove your FAA licence.... so we are going to make you get a UK one instead"

:roll:


Every nation is already sovereign and can deny anyone to fly in their country.

An option seldom exercised but certainly has happened in the past.
By patowalker
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1848944
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:
James Chan wrote:I think there's a requirement for foreign cars and drivers to re-register in the UK if they've been here long enough.


Only since 1/1/21 - not before


Are you sure? If imported permanently, it has always had to be re-registered. That people didn't, is another matter. I know I had a certain period within which to re-register my Luxembourg car when I returned to the UK in 2005.
Last edited by patowalker on Mon May 24, 2021 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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User avatar
By James Chan
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1848948
The FAA is a clearly superior system, so what would be the benefit in trying to move away from it?


I agree it’s superior but opponents would say “as judged by whom”?

It would also be for the CAA/DfT/government to adopt these “superior systems” such that residents moving to G-reg / UK PPLs would mostly have no hesitation in doing so.

It’s possible to have mutual recognition of standards through deals/treaties and allow foreign reg aircraft and pilots to be indefinitely based here - but even in recent times the UK wants to move away from EU standards and the ECJ to pursue its own course.
User avatar
By Lockhaven
#1848951
My understanding is that it only applies to people residing in the UK flying a G-REG aircraft using an FAA licence.

If you have a stand alone FAA licence and medical and own an N-REG aircraft operating in the UK I don't think this applies.
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