Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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#1848715
Hi Lee, by comparison it’s too big, too expensive and needs a separate battery. I wanted something small and cheap to add an extra layer of signal diversity to my ADS-B Out. I like the SoftRF as it is nice and small, plus I’m planning to experiment with one of these next, which will mean I can squirrel away the little box almost anywhere where it can get a GNSS/GPS signal: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32811191641.html
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At $2 (plus a bit of shipping and tax), I’ll probably still get significant change out of a tenner too! :thumright:

Your SkyGRID sounds very interesting, though. Sounds very much like JTIDS Link16, where everyone passes data between themselves. Are you using TDMA to ensure that you all get a time slot to broadcast your data in or contention access where chaos rules and something always gets through? Will GPS provide your network time source or ATOM if you use TDMA?

PS. Just ordered - $6.85 inc shipping and taxes - so change out of fiver! Bargain!
#1848740
gaznav wrote:Hi Lee, by comparison it’s too big, too expensive and needs a separate battery. I wanted something small and cheap to add an extra layer of signal diversity to my ADS-B Out. I like the SoftRF as it is nice and small, plus I’m planning to experiment with one of these next, which will mean I can squirrel away the little box almost anywhere where it can get a GNSS/GPS signal: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32811191641.html

At $2 (plus a bit of shipping and tax), I’ll probably still get significant change out of a tenner too! :thumright:

PS. Just ordered - $6.85 inc shipping and taxes - so change out of fiver! Bargain!


@gaznav : $6.85 :shock: vs £35 for the Flarm branded item ! Will be interested to hear how this works out........ They dont seem to do anything similar in the 1090Mhz band ?
gaznav liked this
#1848747
ls8pilot wrote:@gaznav : $6.85 :shock: vs £35 for the Flarm branded item ! Will be interested to hear how this works out........ They dont seem to do anything similar in the 1090Mhz band ?

We tested a lot of these sold on eBay and AliExpress, and found a huge variation in quality/performance, including hi loss co-ax, and poor VSWR at the intended frequency.
We have a manufacturer who targets and tests specifically against the intended use, I am sure Flarm do the same, hence the cost difference

Thx
Lee
#1848748
@leemoore1966

Thank you. I sort of understood that.

I bought a 'classic' Pilot Aware many years back.

Then I reboxed it in a Stratus case.

Then I added ADSB Out with a Trig GPS and our existing, almost-Trig, Bendix King transponder.

Is my next move to hard wire the PAw and fit external aerials or to replace the PAw GPS with this new gizmo?

We operate from a glider field but are already warned of all the gliders operating from there with the current setup.

Rob P
Last edited by Rob P on Sun May 23, 2021 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#1848750
@VinceGod’s picture, inspired me to look again at antenna. There is certainly some diversity in the antennae in this picture:
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So, I then took a picture of my little collection of EC devices:
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I hadn’t looked at my SkyEcho1 for a while, and so I decided to do a side-by-side test of both with the transmitters off to see what could be seen. There has been some criticism on the lack of large external antennae on the SkyEcho2. So I gave them a test, at the same time side-by-side with the same settings in SkyDemon, and I was quite surprised at the results:
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SkyEcho1
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SkyEcho2
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As you can see, the detection range appears to be better on the SkyEcho2 compared to the SkyEcho1. I believe the receivers are the same - one of their in-house Ping types - only the antenna are different. Maybe ‘size doesn’t matter’ after all? :lol: I do recall asking Christian Ramsey at uAvionix about the internal antennae, and he explained they had done a lot of research to try and get them right.

This is a reminder of the Meandered Inverted-F antennae (MIFA) on the Printed Circuit Board (PCB) inside a SkyEcho2.
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So antennae appear to be really important. The little antenna that came with the TTGO T-Beam was supposedly 1.5dB, and I replaced it with the one in the first photo - supposedly a 3dB rubber helical for 868MHz - and it works pretty well (again, for FLARM, not as good as the MIFA inside the SkyEcho it would appear). So I thought I would try out that t-piece 868 MHz dual-dipole antenna - I know that FLARM and Pilot Aware have them listed as upgrades, so I thought I’d give it a go :thumright:
dewidaniels liked this
#1848799
@Rob P

Do you know what? You and another forumite made me navel-gaze this afternoon to think why Mid Air Collisions and Electronic Conspicuity are so important to me - they have been part of my life for my past 31 years as an aviator.

1993 Jet Ranger vs Tornado - the same year I started flying Tornado. My comrades got away with it, the helicopter occupants were not so fortunate. One of the recommendations - Fit a Collision Warning System by both the MOD and AAIB.

1995 Tornado vs Tornado - conducting night vision goggle (NVG) Visual Identification (VID) at night they collided with each other. One crew jumped out, going for swim in the North Sea, the other landed safely.

1996 Tornado vs Tornado - I watched the smoke rising from the ground as a result of a mid air collision as I walked out to a jet to go flying. Luckily, my mates got away with it. One mate, Flt Lt Ian Weaver received life changing injuries to his head, neck and chest that took him through hell and back during recuperation. The investigation didn’t recommend Electronic Conspicuity improvements (they saw each other!). They were proper lucky!

1998 Strategic Defence Review made funds for a Collision Warning System for Tornado.

1999 Cessna vs Tornado - I knew Flt Lt Greg Hurst, who was killed, and around the same time I flew a Tomahawk from Gamston where the Cessna came from. One of the recommendations - Fit a Collision Warning System.

2003-2006 I was the military member on the UK AIRPROX Board.

2009 Grob vs Glider - I was making enquiries to fly as an AEF Pilot at RAF Benson when this tragedy struck. One of the recommendations - The CAA and MAA to investigate Electronic Conspicuity.

2012 Tornado vs Tornado - 3 out of 4 of my colleagues were killed. One of the recommendations - Fit a Collision Awareness and Warning System.

2014 Collision Warning System is fitted to Tornado.

2016 Cessna vs Glider - Chris Armstrong was the glider’s Pilot and killed. He was an ex RAF Group Captain that I knew and I spoke to him literally 3 weeks prior to his untimely demise. The AAIB recommended that Electronic Conspicuity that can detect each other is fitted.

2016 CAA’s CAP1391 was released around the time of the 2016 Cessna vs Glider collision. It is mentioned in the AAIB report.

So maybe this is why I’m a teensy-weensy bit OCD about Electronic Conspicuity [understatement!]. I know it’s not the top killer in our chosen sport and past-time, but it is one thing that technology can help prevent us being killed from. :thumright:
kanga, dewidaniels, KevWal liked this
#1848803
Fair point, but.

And in the same period some 40,000 folk died on the roads. Do you really feel your response in proportional to the risk, or should you be better employed giving up driving?

Rob P
gaznav liked this
#1848808
@Rob P I don’t think it’s all about numbers - safety is often a very subjective emotional matter (as I argued on another thread which was locked for some reason by the OP)

Personally when I ice skate at weekends, I wear a Bauer hockey helmet. No requirement to, the stats may not support a need for it, but it makes me comfortable and I enjoy my ice time because of it.

Personally I don’t do single engine over water, but I do teach night single engine. Probably totally irrational but it’s what works for me.

Takes all sorts really. I learnt some time ago that Brits are generally content when they are all disagreeing about stuff, it’s when things go quiet and there is no chuntering I used to really worry about people.
gaznav, kanga liked this
#1848812
Rob P wrote:Fair point, but.

And in the same period some 40,000 folk died on the roads. Do you really feel your response in proportional to the risk, or should you be better employed giving up driving?

Rob P


32 million licensed drivers and half of them doesn't even know how to turn an indicator on.
It is incredible there are only 40k deaths on the roads.

(Launching ourselves skywards is about 10x ish more dangerous than driving)
MAC accounts for 10% ?? of fatal accidents so the chance of a MAC is about the same as death by driving ISH.

FYI I have PAW ADSB and Flarm in/out.
Also have one of those TTGO units, might try and rig that up for FANNET detection.

Assuming EC is about 50% effective because there are still many jaloppies flying without EC, I'm still happy to spend a few quid (Flarm £ :roll: ) to reduce the risk to what is a practical minimum simply because I don't trust the other guy to see and avoid me when he is in my MK1 eyeball blind spot.
gaznav liked this
#1848814
I'm not arguing against EC. I have had PAw for many years and now have ADSB Out too. I'm just a bit concerned about Gaz's apparent obsessiveness.

Rob P
gaznav liked this
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