Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By 10W
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1846869
The Metroliner may not have had TCAS as it’s only mandated by the FAA for aircraft with over 30 passenger seats or a MTOW over 33,000 Lbs, neither of which is applicable to this aircraft type.

Great escape for all involved.
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By Full Metal Jackass
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1846877
10W wrote:The Metroliner may not have had TCAS as it’s only mandated by the FAA for aircraft with over 30 passenger seats or a MTOW over 33,000 Lbs, neither of which is applicable to this aircraft type.

Great escape for all involved.


It might not have had TCAS II but would definitely have had TCAS I... That is mandated for all aircraft with more than 10 seats but less than 31, at which point TCAS II is mandatory....

...unless of course, that particular Metroliner has only ever been used for freight.....
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By Rob P
#1846884
Mike Tango wrote:With a little time to kill earlier thought I’d take a look at KAPA on MSFS


Thanks @Mike Tango, not that dodgy, and added more to the thread than all the discussion of instrument approaches combined.

Rob P
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By riverrock
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1846889
Mike Tango wrote:With a little time to kill earlier thought I’d take a look at KAPA on MSFS, the runways are rather close together. Please excuse dodgy flying and dodgy video making…

Useful to try and understand in a different way how easy to overshoot final, although I believe the cirrus was turning base about a mile further north / downwind, in line with the residential / tree line nearer the resevoir?
How does the perspective compare to real life ( eg, dash cams distort the perspective with their wide lenses - does the MSFS do similar or does it feel right?
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By Iceman
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1846920
Dave W wrote:A couple of images whilst both aircraft still airborne post impact are being shared now. :shock:


I posted the full video from which that SR22 still was taken earlier in the thread, the video showing the SR22 coming down to ground impact.

Iceman 8)
By Mike Tango
#1846922
riverrock wrote:Useful to try and understand in a different way how easy to overshoot final, although I believe the cirrus was turning base about a mile further north / downwind, in line with the residential / tree line nearer the resevoir?
How does the perspective compare to real life ( eg, dash cams distort the perspective with their wide lenses - does the MSFS do similar or does it feel right?


I wasn't trying to replicate the exact circumstances, really just wanted to get an idea of how close the runways were together. Answer, quite close!

That video earlier was cropped during conversion from a much wider original video which I'll add below just for comparison. There is some distortion at the periphery due to the wide angle, but nothing too excessive and it possibly gives a better overall idea...

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By 10W
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1846949
Full Metal Jackass wrote:
10W wrote:The Metroliner may not have had TCAS as it’s only mandated by the FAA for aircraft with over 30 passenger seats or a MTOW over 33,000 Lbs, neither of which is applicable to this aircraft type.

Great escape for all involved.


It might not have had TCAS II but would definitely have had TCAS I... That is mandated for all aircraft with more than 10 seats but less than 31, at which point TCAS II is mandatory....

...unless of course, that particular Metroliner has only ever been used for freight.....


Originally delivered in Commuter configuration in 1979 but been flying in the freight role since the early 1990’s :thumleft:
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By skydriller
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1846975
Rallye wrote:Another possibility with the G 328.Instead of pushing ON,you may push immediately on ALT,so you don't forget .
I had it one or two times,i forgot and ATC reminded me.


I know that is an option at a small airfield...but unfortunately if I understand correctly this would then transmit an altitude (C/S) which results in a TCAS alert for such an equipped aeroplane on final at a bigger aerodrome if you are at the hold - which is why GND(on) ->ALT is one of my pre-takeoff/ runway actions.

Regards, SD..
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By 2Donkeys
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1846977
skydriller wrote:I know that is an option at a small airfield...but unfortunately if I understand correctly this would then transmit an altitude (C/S) which results in a TCAS alert for such an equipped aeroplane on final at a bigger aerodrome if you are at the hold - which is why GND(on) ->ALT is one of my pre-takeoff/ runway actions.

Regards, SD..


Not quite. TCAS Resolution Advisories (RAs) are ordinarily disabled on retractable types when the gear is extended and/or when below 1000 feet IIRC. This eliminates nuisance RAs under such circumstances, but doesn't suppress TCAS entirely.
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By Lockhaven
#1846978
2Donkeys wrote:
skydriller wrote:I know that is an option at a small airfield...but unfortunately if I understand correctly this would then transmit an altitude (C/S) which results in a TCAS alert for such an equipped aeroplane on final at a bigger aerodrome if you are at the hold - which is why GND(on) ->ALT is one of my pre-takeoff/ runway actions.

Regards, SD..


Not quite. TCAS Resolution Advisories (RAs) are ordinarily disabled on retractable types when the gear is extended and/or when below 1000 feet IIRC. This eliminates nuisance RAs under such circumstances, but doesn't suppress TCAS entirely.


Also when flaps are in the landing configuration as the aircrafts manoeuvrability is reduced.
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By Cub
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1846988
skydriller wrote:
Rallye wrote:Another possibility with the G 328.Instead of pushing ON,you may push immediately on ALT,so you don't forget .
I had it one or two times,i forgot and ATC reminded me.


I know that is an option at a small airfield...but unfortunately if I understand correctly this would then transmit an altitude (C/S) which results in a TCAS alert for such an equipped aeroplane on final at a bigger aerodrome if you are at the hold - which is why GND(on) ->ALT is one of my pre-takeoff/ runway actions.

Regards, SD..


The U.K. has operated a ‘cradle to grave’ (slightly unfortunate words!) system for about 12 years now where it is perfectly acceptable for the transponder to be operated in ALT from startup to shutdown regardless of the phase of flight. The methodology being that ground based systems and TCAS are suitably adapted to utilise or ignore the data transmitted in all circumstances.

This policy received some publicity amongst the GA and airline communities around 2012 but probably needs reiterating via an AIC etc.

Generally RAs will not be triggered below 1,000 ft AGL see https://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=1846586#p1846586
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By James Chan
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1846989
where it is perfectly acceptable


And that's great as it means one less switch for the pilot to change. But do you know if that's the same for flights across Europe?

When I was taught my PPL back in the day, I was told to only switch to ALT when holding short of the runway, and then back to GND when crossing the hold lines coming off the runway.
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