Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
By Stampe
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1846282
Helping a friend with auto load sheet .The basic weight and index from the last weighing is1619 lbs at 84.51 inches.
This seems quite far forward though workable with rear ballast required with full fuel and two modern sized front seat occupants.
Anyone else with a sixties vintage Arrow1 who could advise what their last weighing figures are please?
Regards fly safe Stampe.
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By PeteSpencer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1846290
Ive got a 1969 PA28R200 loadsheet if that's any use: if you pm an email address.

The CG does come up a bit forward with two pie-eaters and full tanks.

We keep a plastic crate with spare oil 2no. and liferaft and rubber chocks in baggage compartment.

Peter
By Stampe
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1846293
Thx Pete I believe the change between the 1 and 2 is quite significant as well as the bigger engine a larger stabilator and possibly some extra wingspan!
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By PeteSpencer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1846295
Stampe wrote:Thx Pete I believe the change between the 1 and 2 is quite significant as well as the bigger engine a larger stabilator and possibly some extra wingspan!


Not quite true: There is no such thing as an Arrow 1, it's just an 'Arrow' or 'Cherokee Arrow'

The 200 HP engine was offered in late 60s as an option for the 180 'Arrow' and became so popular that they ditched the 180HP option .

The PA28R200 carried on with the Hershey Bar (parallel chord) wing for a year or so when the Arrow 2 appeared, with the tapered wing and 12 inch or so longer fuselage and retaining the '360' 200HP engine.

That was c. 1973, though don't quote me on that.
Hope your friend gets sorted: I do have a friend, ex member of our group who flies a 67 180 Arrow from his Farm in Norfolk: I'll email him to see he can supply the info you want.
By TG6
#1846316
I have the data from a 1968 Arrow I was involved with a few (39 years :shock: ) back. It only had the basic instruments then but Part A gave 1570 lb basic weight and CoG 86.55 in aft of datum with landing gear extended. The datum given was 78.4 in forward of the wing leading edge at the intersection of the straight and tapered sections.
Part B with a variable item of One Pilot at actual weight gives a lever arm of 85.5 in.

Make of that what you will.
By Lefty
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1846379
I don’t have a suitable W&B sheet to hand, however with 50 years of flying all of the Piper singles, almost all of them will have a forward CoG with full fuel and two pie eaters up front. Most will even be forward of the envelop and will need some weight added in the back to get the CoG back within the envelop.
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By Awful Charlie
#1846459
I had to dig into my archive to find out what my old one was (which I sold more than 10 years ago to another forumite)

When I bought it back in 1998 it was 1587lbs at 85.5" by the paperwork included (no idea how old the weighing was now), so two 200lbs peeps in the front wasn't quite possible with full fuel only - either tabs or 50lbs in the baggage bay would be fine though.

A number of upgrades (avionics, altitude hold, "drag reduction" kit, repaint, new engine) altered it over time with a weighing of 1624lbs at 87.46" (guessing the altitude hold system and WX500 were responsible for a large part of pushing it aft)
By malcolmfrost
#1846469
Cherokees always seem to come out forward, 2x80kg front seat and full tanks on our 180 is right at the limit. Any heavier people and "tabs" is the limit or put a sack of cement in the boot!
By Stampe
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1846687
Thanks for your replies everyone confirming we are in the right ballpark if not where we would like to be.Engineers have decided on a reweigh anyway so the truth will be revealed !
Fly safe Stampe.
By philbik
#1846716
PeteSpencer wrote:The PA28R200 carried on with the Hershey Bar (parallel chord) wing for a year or so when the Arrow 2 appeared, with the tapered wing and 12 inch or so longer fuselage and retaining the '360' 200HP engine.


I believe that the Arrow 200 first appeared in 1969 and the Arrow II in 1972, both with the 200HP IO-360-C1C engine. The Arrow II still had the "Hershey bar" wing but the fuselage was longer and the wingspan and stabilator span was wider, and had an MTOW increase to 1202Kg.

The tapered wing wasn't introduced until the Arrow III in 1977.
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By PeteSpencer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1846724
philbik wrote:
PeteSpencer wrote:The PA28R200 carried on with the Hershey Bar (parallel chord) wing for a year or so when the Arrow 2 appeared, with the tapered wing and 12 inch or so longer fuselage and retaining the '360' 200HP engine.


I believe that the Arrow 200 first appeared in 1969 and the Arrow II in 1972, both with the 200HP IO-360-C1C engine. The Arrow II still had the "Hershey bar" wing but the fuselage was longer and the wingspan and stabilator span was wider, and had an MTOW increase to 1202Kg.

The tapered wing wasn't introduced until the Arrow III in 1977.



Thanks for that:

While we're in nit-picking mode the Cherokee Arrow was in fact first introduced in 1967 as a development of the Cherokee 150 which first appeared in 1961.

The II had a fuselage less than a foot longer but better rear legroom and two ft bigger Hershey Bar wing span .

The tapered wing as you say in the III in 1977 allowed bigger fuel capacity.