Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By rf3flyer
#1846440
Human Factor wrote:
...IMHO, the safest join is an initials join to a VRIAB done properly. This has dual advantages. Firstly, it allows a joining aircraft to skyline any existing circuit traffic and fit in appropriately rather than effectively aiming for a fixed point in space (circuit height over the numbers) and then wondering how the hell to slot in if someone is downwind. The VRIAB can be extended as required or at worst blow through and try again...

Very probably I don't know how a VRIAB should be done properly but the times I have witnessed what was purported to be that approach it looks like the last thing you would want to be doing at a civilian field, particularly one that has other traffic. It seems to me to be an exclusively military manoeuvre, but isn't this forum General Aviation?

Maybe this would work... :wink:
By Dominie
#1846441
I would think that a VRIAB was only done in the military at CONTROLLED airfields with fast jets - it was certainly a regular event at Finningley in my time for the JPs and Dominies, but I can't recall the Jetstreams doing it. Totally inappropriate for a busy uncontrolled airfield in my view, and would surely increase the noise locally?
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By Human Factor
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1846652
If you think about it, all it is is a dead side join commenced parallel to the runway in use on the dead side turning into the circuit at circuit height to join crosswind. The big difference is that the point at which you join the circuit becomes variable to slot in instead of that fixed point over the numbers. It doesn't need fast jets, it doesn't need ATC. It needs discipline and common sense. Oh wait....
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By T67M
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1847054
I'm not sure how the VRIAB is supposed to be flown, but the way I've seen it done by warbirds at various airfields effectively halves the capacity of the runway as one "slot" on the runway is required for the Run and Break, and a second "slot" for the actual landing. It's possible that these warbirds aren't flying the VRIAB correctly, but I've been sat on the ground at the hold for half an hour cursing warbirds making individual approaches and blogging the entire airfield. If they had made normal GA joins instead, at least half a dozen aircraft at the hold would have been able to safely depart in the same time they took to land.
#1847055
T67M wrote:I'm not sure how the VRIAB is supposed to be flown, but the way I've seen it done by warbirds at various airfields effectively halves the capacity of the runway as one "slot" on the runway is required for the Run and Break, and a second "slot" for the actual landing. It's possible that these warbirds aren't flying the VRIAB correctly, but I've been sat on the ground at the hold for half an hour cursing warbirds making individual approaches and blogging the entire airfield. If they had made normal GA joins instead, at least half a dozen aircraft at the hold would have been able to safely depart in the same time they took to land.


I don’t have a particularly strong view on VRIAB one way or the other. But whilst what you have written may apply to warbirds at air shows, it most definitely is not how VRIAB is intended to work.

The whole point of the entire procedure is to recover as many aircraft as possible, as quickly as possible. Getting them on the ground and out of harms way. No ‘double slots’ required if done correctly.

The Reds certainly don’t require double slots if you’ve ever watched them.
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By MattL
#1847058
The “standard join” is flown from the Initial Point (about 2 miles back from threshold on dead side) and runs in on the dead side, crossing to downwind at the upwind end of the runway or later for traffic.

A VRIAB is when the run in is at higher speed ans the ‘break’ to downwind is performed abeam the threshold (or later for traffic) and the aircraft is slowed to circuit speed in the break.

A low level break and join is when the break and subsequent circuit is flown at low level (eg 500ft)

You sometimes see people flying a low run in then zoom break to circuit height which has no operational use and is more about appearance.
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By Rob P
#1847061
It all ended in tears when a Yak driver decided it would be a cool way to join the circuit at North Weald (IIRC)

Rob P
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By Human Factor
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1847084
You sometimes see people flying a low run in then zoom break to circuit height which has no operational use and is more about appearance.


It all ended in tears when a Yak driver decided it would be a cool way to join the circuit at North Weald (IIRC)


Hence my last sentence(s)...

It needs discipline and common sense. Oh wait....
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By gaznav
#1847110
You sometimes see people flying a low run in then zoom break to circuit height which has no operational use and is more about appearance.


It can occasionally be useful to ‘skyline’ downwind traffic in the circuit if you’re having problems seeing them as you come in from initials :thumright:

[but you are right, that many use it more for showboating, which is obvious when the circuit is empty!]