Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
#1844679
:thumright: When delivering my FRTOL courses I have a slide which discusses the speechless procedure (CAP413 Chapter 10.13 refers)

For those who are not aware this is a military procedure used in the event of being unable to transmit speech. CAP 413 also refers to the speechless code in the context of Distress and Urgency Communication Procedures (CAP413 chapter 8.18 refers)

This procedure is reproduced in part below:
Image
I also frequently hear and sometimes see students and pilots clicking the PTT button twice in certain circumstances, I assume, to indicate either ‘affirm’ or ‘roger’ (meaning ‘yes’ and ‘I have received all your last transmission’ respectively).

This latter use of this PTT double-click seems to be at odds with the intended use under CAP413 Chapter 10.

Would someone enlighten me as to where the PTT double-click to mean ‘Affirm’ or ‘Roger’ originates?

Thank you
Last edited by Andrew Sinclair on Thu May 06, 2021 8:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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By Andrew Sinclair
#1844686
Thanks @MattL,

During RTF tests and indeed instrument flight instruction I have always given ‘avoid it’ feedback for exactly the reason you state.

Interestingly, the last person responded by asking where the practice came from, which left me rather :scratch:

Glad I hadn’t missed something :thumleft:
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By BEX
#1844711
<nostalgia mode>
Ahhh the joys of Speechless code. Combined with a no compass no gyro (radar vectored) approach, these could be endless fun .....

"make all turns rate one, start and stop each turn with the command NOW".

Actually combined with a PAR this could be lifesaver. We could get an aircraft safely back on the ground, in IMC, with a minimum of serviceable instruments. Never did it for real, but had lots and lots of practice...

(Chevvron will remember, because he was good at them... me? just average)

BEX
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By Crash one
#1844712
Human Factor wrote:I believe it may be a military thing as in “I heard you but I’m too busy killing bad guys to respond properly”.



^^^^^This or
I’ve heard it a few times and it seems to be, “I can’t be bothered to speak but I heard you, good bye”
Usually after advising an AG unit that you were changing to another freq and them acknowledging that.
ie: AG “G-xx freq 123.45 good day!” Aircraft“Click click”.
Smart assed bone idleness,
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By Lockhaven
#1844717
BEX wrote:<nostalgia mode>
Ahhh the joys of Speechless code. Combined with a no compass no gyro (radar vectored) approach, these could be endless fun .....

"make all turns rate one, start and stop each turn with the command NOW".

Actually combined with a PAR this could be lifesaver. We could get an aircraft safely back on the ground, in IMC, with a minimum of serviceable instruments. Never did it for real, but had lots and lots of practice...

(Chevvron will remember, because he was good at them... me? just average)

BEX


The same speechless no compass no gyro procedure is used for UDF/VDF letdowns, there are a couple of airfields that can still do it.
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By Rjk983
#1844721
BEX wrote:<nostalgia mode>
Ahhh the joys of Speechless code. Combined with a no compass no gyro (radar vectored) approach, these could be endless fun .....

"make all turns rate one, start and stop each turn with the command NOW".

Actually combined with a PAR this could be lifesaver. We could get an aircraft safely back on the ground, in IMC, with a minimum of serviceable instruments. Never did it for real, but had lots and lots of practice...

(Chevvron will remember, because he was good at them... me? just average)

BEX


One of the few times I’ll admit to feeling sorry for an air trafficker, when we used to do speechless IFR recoveries to Newton, where we had no radar. The whole approach was conducted on rate 1 turns with a long transmission for fix on the DF and the trafficker sat in the tower with a clipboard and two stop watches.

You could hear the life drain out of them when you clicked the start of the practice and they worked their way through the list of problems you may have.
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By gaznav
#1844722
I did this for real. Stuck above cloud that had a base below Safety Altitude (which is pretty damn high near Snowdonia) and got vectors to the PAR in a Hawk T1. It worked. I seem to remember the Air Trafficker got some sort of Flight Safety “Good Show” award.

Far safer than doing a manual air plot and TACAN Approach. It did involve squawking emergency though, so that ATC could work out who we were. :thumleft:
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By PaulSS
#1844741
Far safer than doing a manual air plot and TACAN Approach.


What are you blathering on about now? What the hell is wrong with a TACAN approach, which was practised almost from day one as a student in the Hawk? It had one of the best HSI presentations known and a TACAN to ILS or TACAN to TACAN was just another day at the office. If you'd actually flown them you'd know all of this.

"I did this for real" :roll: No, you watched someone else do it for real.......or is this akin to your flying the BBMF machines because the pilot once let you have a 'go'? I was thinking of getting a Concorde type rating added to my licence based on what you qualify as 'when I flew XXX'.
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By gaznav
#1844742
You must have been real fun as a co-pilot in your airline days... :roll: Did you do the Multi-Crew Non-Cooperation course per chance? :lol: :lol:

By the way, any fool knows that the Valley instrument pattern is busy. So barrelling into it with no RT and no air to air RADAR might be how Fishhead Airways do business, but not us.
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