Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
#1844503
Monitoring Cardiff App yesterday, there was an ASR helicopter operating low-level over the sea (training ops) south of Cardiff airport (elevation 220 ft). The radar controller referred to them as operating outside controlled airspace. Possibly one for the ATC’ers here, is the volume of airspace below a CTR always recognised as been outside controlled airspace, a CTR being designated as SFC to some higher level ? I ask as I recall Carole P, formerly of Cardiff ATC, always bemoaning the fact that Maurice Kirk, bane of Cardiff ATC, would often takeoff from his strip and fly below Cardiff airfield elevation, and argued that he was outside controlled airspace. Until yesterday, I thought that this was just one of the ‘stunts’ for which Maurice Kirk was renowned, but it turns out that it actually seems to be fairly ‘normal practice’ ?

Image

Iceman 8)
#1844508
Iceman wrote:No, I mean a CTR. As you say, a CTR touches the ground, but at airfield elevation level or below it ? I’m pretty site that the helicopter was within the lateral area of the CTR, but that the controller referred to it as being below controlled airspace.

Iceman 8)


Th vertical extent of a CTR (normally - in the U.K.) starts at the surface. Not just the surface at the Aerodrome but from the surface throughout the lateral extent of the CTR. Hence, the vertical extent of the CTR varies throughout it’s mass according to the particular spot elevation it is measured from.

You will note from the U.K. AIP that the Cardiff CTR is annotated as extending from SFC to FL105. SFC referring to the surface elevation throughout the CTR and not just the Aerodrome elevation.
Last edited by Cub on Sun May 02, 2021 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#1844533
Was that helis on frequency and "visual" by tower ATC? maybe happens when you land inside CTR but not at airport?

Just like flying from Rush Green or Park Farm fisheries you are in Luton CTR but you are not controlled and no clearance if you stay very low along some allocated route, but there is probably a letter of agreement somewhere (if you have TXP and fly high like you wish you will need clearance from Luton ATC to enter/land by RT & takeoff/exit by phone call)

Gliding at Dunstable is done in CTR under NATS/BGA LetterOfAgreement, good luck controlling gliders :lol:
Last edited by Ibra on Mon May 03, 2021 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
#1844536
Ibra wrote:Was that helis on frequency and "visual" by tower ATC? maybe happens when you land inside CTR but not at airport?

Just like flying from Rush Green or Park Farm fisheries you are in Luton CTR but you are not controlled and no clearance if you stay very low along some allocated route, but there is probably a letter of agreement somewhere (if you have TXP and fly high like you wish you will need clearance from Luton ATC to enter/land by RT & takeoff/exit by phone call)


You always require a clearance when operating to/from Rush Green!
#1844675
Cub wrote:You always require a clearance when operating to/from Rush Green!


How does it work now for takeoff clearance? I had the impression if weather is sunny you just depart staying low before calling Luton App to get "VFR not above 1500ft amsl"

If weather is marginal it seems one needs an SVFR takeoff clearance, obviously by phone

Can one fly circuits there :lol:
#1844692
I am a little out of date but a couple of years ago operations to/from Rush Green required a positive clearance from Luton Radar including a pre-note via telephone prior to departure. Circuits were possible but again, required a pre-note and positive clearance.

I am sure a phone call to the PPR number will confirm the current procedures and the strip is worth visiting. I have flown into the strip a few times and @vintageatco and I even attended a famous aeroplane’s birthday party at the airfield, many years ago.