Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
#1843972
Has been discussed a few times here.
We have a domestic device which shows buildup and current level on its screen, velcroed to the panel.
Just be aware that non-standards compliant devices can alert at levels that are not at all dangerous - the startle effect could be more dangerous than the CO!

https://www.toolstation.com/fireangel-d ... arm/p66368
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#1843991
The publication by the Australian Transport Safety Board 4 into the Collision with water involving a de Havilland Canada DHC-2 Beaver aircraft, VH‑NOO, at Jerusalem Bay, Hawkesbury River, NSW on 31 December 2017 which resulted in the loss of six lives, following on the terrible well-publicised Cardiff Football crash of PA-46 Malibu N264DB near Alderney, has highlighted that, yet again, the loss of life was due to Carbon Monoxide poisoning.
Surely the time has come when CO Monitors should be de rigueur for all GA aircraft.
These simple pieces of equipment are very cheap and easily obtainable.
Paradoxically, some pilots maintain one should purchase a NON certified model.
The B.S. certification is based on “eliminating false alarms. Therefore they will not activate until Carbon Monoxide is present for at least 15 minutes”.
In a GA cockpit such inactivity could be fatal - as these two recent events seem to demonstrate.
Last edited by Geldard on Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
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#1843993
CloudHound wrote:Although a tad Motherhood and Apple Pie this SN has made me think it's time to upgrade to a better form of detection other than the passive spot device I've always used.

http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SafetyNotice2020003V2.pdf


Cloudhound - look in our Pup (KW) in Hangar 8 on the P2 side. I have velcro'd a domestic CO detector to the floor by the passenger seat. This is not ideal because CO is slightly lighter than air but we hope to mount one higher up when a smaller version is available.

Regards

Mike
#1843998
My IR examiner because he flies in many Ac carries a pocket alarm. I forget the name but once looked it up cost £70

We have a domestic one with 7 year battery rigidly stuck to centre console with a square of 3M . Picks up the odd waft of CO when door cracked on the ground but no alarms yet . Light years ahead of red spot which should be replaced every three months
#1844039
Geldard wrote:Paradoxically, some pilots maintain one should purchase a NON certified model.
The B.S. certification is based on “eliminating false alarms. Therefore they will not activate until Carbon Monoxide is present for at least 15 minutes”.
In a GA cockpit such inactivity could be fatal - as these two recent events seem to demonstrate.

Where did you get that quote from?
BS EN 50291-2:2010 is the standard you want - there isn't one for aircraft, but that includes vehicles and boats.

These alarms will sound immediately on a high level of CO but also sound after a build up at a lower level, which wouldn't be dangerous in short exposures. Some that aren't kite marked will sound at low, safe levels - hence false alarms.
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#1844099
I went through much the same thought process recently and decided it was time I had a CO monitor of some sort. The stick on spots are just about worthless AFIACT, the domestic units seem a real heath robinson solution so I decided on the basis of if it's worth doing it's worth doing properly and sourced an Aithre CO meter from the states which I'm in the process of wiring into my glass panel to give visual metering alongside the engine monitoring and audio alerts through the headphones at presettable levels. About 3 times the cost of the most commonly recommended non aviation units (the fire angel ones) but at least it keeps my panel nice and clean and does a proper job.
#1844220
Where did you get that quote from?


“ UL-approved residential CO detectors are not permitted to alarm until the concentration rises to 70 ppm and stays there for four hours. (This was demanded by firefighters and utility companies to reduce the incidence of nuisance calls from homeowners.)”
“ Although battery-powered residential electronic detectors are vastly superior to those worthless chemical spots, most are designed to be compliant with Underwriter’s Laboratory specification UL-2034 (revised 1998). This spec requires that
(1) The digital readout must not display any CO concentration less than 30 ppm.
(2) The alarm will not sound until CO reaches 70 ppm and remains at or above that level for four hours.
(3) Even at a concentration of 400 ppm, it may take as much as 15 minutes before the alarm sounds.”

https://blog.aopa.org/aopa/2014/10/20/c ... nt-killer/
Last edited by Geldard on Sat May 01, 2021 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#1844323
The spec you mention is USA only - I suggest European spec CO detectors @Geldard .
The alarm I linked to above ( Fire Angel CO-9D https://www.fireangel.co.uk/co-9d-manual/ )
The alarm will sound:
• Between 60 and 90 minutes when exposed to a minimum of 50ppm of CO.
• Between 10 and 40 minutes when exposed to a minimum of 100ppm of CO.
• Within 3 minutes when exposed to a minimum of 300ppm of CO.

The display shows anything over 10ppm.

For ref:
35ppm The maximum allowable concentration for continuous exposure for healthy adults in any 8 hour period, as recommended by the
Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA).
200ppm Slight headache, fatigue, dizziness, nausea after 2 - 3 hours.
400ppm Frontal headaches within 1 - 2 hours, life threatening after 3 hours.
800ppm Dizziness, nausea and convulsions within 45 minutes. Unconsciousness within 2
hours. Death within 2 - 3 hours.
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